Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

docker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 334 posts

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#171

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

yencabulator wrote: post #147
madeofpalk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they say they were never actually affected > We’d also like to clarify that public images will only be removed from Docker Hub if their maintainer decides to delete them. > Will open source images I rely on get deleted? > Not by Docker. Public images will only disappear if the maintainer of the image decides to proactively delete it from Docker Hub. If the maintainer takes no action, we will continue to distrib…

They also are saying the maintainers will be unable to update the images after the 30 days. So the panic and bitching are perfectly deserved: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35188691

For TEAM accounts that aren't "Docker sponsored open source" teams.

They should allow a TEAM->PERSONAL conversion for any open source account that doesn't qualify to be "Docker sponsored." But really this is a communications fail more than anything.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#172

Post by terom »

mikesir87 wrote: post #131
patmcc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>During that period you will maintain access to any of your public images. What did this mean in that case? That the images will continue to exist but the maintainers cannot update them? They'll just become orphaned?

(from the Docker DevRel team) "During that period" refers to the 30-day period. During that time, the images are accessible. After the 30-day period, they will still be pull-able, but not able to be updated.

This is an important implication that needs to be brought up in the FAQ explicitly.

In other words, the public repos are being archived. If I was a maintainer responsible for providing up-to-date and secure images, then I think it would indeed by my duty to delete them, if I am no longer able to update them.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#173

Post by bpodgursky »

ericb wrote: post #7

If they are listening to feedback, first is that a 30 day timeframe sends the message that "we feel our profit is more important than whatever else you are working on, so much that you should either pay us, or if you cannot afford it, immediately halt your other activities to reduce our costs." None of that builds trust. As someone affected, I'm ok with paying. * I don't like feeling tricked * I don't like feeling he…

I can assure you that Docker is not trying to protect any profits. More like... slow the cash hemorrhage.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#175

Post by ok_dad »

mikesir87 wrote: post #131
patmcc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>During that period you will maintain access to any of your public images. What did this mean in that case? That the images will continue to exist but the maintainers cannot update them? They'll just become orphaned?

(from the Docker DevRel team) "During that period" refers to the 30-day period. During that time, the images are accessible. After the 30-day period, they will still be pull-able, but not able to be updated.

> If you don’t upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories, though rate limitations will apply.

Specifically (emphasis mine):

> During that time, you will maintain access to any images in your public repositories

So, the logical conclusion, which literally everyone else on HN had, was that after that time you will lose access to images in your public repositories; access meaning "we can get to the image" in this context, because that's what people f-n care about.

Not to mention the other part, about how Docker will still have images available for pull that can't be changed, for which there is no way to "forward" user pulls elsewhere if the developer chose to not pay the fee; so in affect you're capturing their user base with old software and almost no way to know that.

"DevRel" at Docker failed this week. Just own up to it, take the hit, and don't be evasive. Evasiveness is shady and no one trusts that bullshit.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#176

Post by bobleeswagger »

foobarbecue wrote: post #33
bobleeswagger wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'We're sorry we mistreated you, look how small you are to us.' They could choose not to share any data, which is what most companies default to. You're complaining about something so small as if they aren't handling this entire thing beautifully at this point. They noticed their mistake, and corrected it swiftly to keep the community from bifurcating. What else do you want, exactly?

> What else do you want, exactly? There's a world of difference between "This impacted less than 2% of our users." and "This impacted about 2% of our users." The first implies that they have up to 2% of users which they don't respect, and undermines their apology. I agree that it's good that they responded quickly, and I know there's a tradeoff between fast and perfect.

> There's a world of difference between

No there isn't. This is entirely subjective and you're acting like they said "Fuck our customers" when they just shared data. Anything you want to imply beyond that says more about you than it does about any part of Docker.

> The first implies that they have up to 2% of users which they don't respect, and undermines their apology.

Where does this implication come from? Why is Docker not given the benefit of the doubt when they are already extending an olive branch...? This isn't Microsoft.

I guess if you want to change things, you should shoot for a position in PR at docker. Otherwise, you look like a rube for acting as though they "could have done better with one sentence." I bet you're fun at parties.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#177

Post by xboxnolifes »

bragr wrote: post #119
mikesir87 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(from Docker DevRel team) > Given these statements directly contradict each other Actually... they aren't contradictory. The organization data will be retained for 30 days and is subject to deletion. That data includes the teams, memberships, etc. But, it wasn't clear what we were going to do about the images. Keeping the public images is important as many other images build on top of them. > It feels like they chang…

>Actually... they aren't contradictory. They are. Your intent may not have been contradictory, but the messages received by everyone else were contradictory. You should own that if you are serious about doing better. Your intent doesn't really matter in these situations.

That's.... why they are saying it was poor communication.

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#178

Post by [deleted] »

mikesir87 wrote: post #99
nielsole wrote: post #56

Previous communication: > If you don't upgrade to a paid subscription, Docker will retain your organization data for 30 days, after which it will be subject to deletion. During that period you will maintain access to any of your public images. New communication: > We’d also like to clarify that public images will only be removed from Docker Hub if their maintainer decides to delete them. We’re sorry that our initial…

(from Docker DevRel team) > Given these statements directly contradict each other Actually... they aren't contradictory. The organization data will be retained for 30 days and is subject to deletion. That data includes the teams, memberships, etc. But, it wasn't clear what we were going to do about the images. Keeping the public images is important as many other images build on top of them. > It feels like they chang…

[deleted]

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#179

Post by wholinator2 »

eternalban wrote: post #115
gpm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During that period you will maintain access to any of your public images. Pretty unambiguously means "after that period you may not have access to any of your public images".

Isn't that like a service like Github saying 'you will maintain access to any of your public projects' as in administrative access to one's own projects . After that period, you are no longer the owner of that repo and you no longer have "access". So I can still clone your github project but alas you no longer can commit to it. https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/orgs/ https://hub.docker.com/orgs

Doesn't sound like it to me. If they meant "administrative access" they should have said "administrative access". They didn't, they just said "access" which unambiguously means just "access". Would've been very easy for them to make a one word correction somewhere in the dozen or so people who should have read this before it went out. But they didn't, they just said "access". If they wanted unambiguous meaning, they could have easily just said what they meant.

Methinks that's exactly what they did

Re: We apologize. We did a terrible job announcing the end of Docker Free Teams

#180

Post by brianwawok »

nikolay wrote: post #153
vertis wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleting 'organization data' absolutely read that they would delete everything. Changing direction and back pedaling with a non-apology is borderline insulting. I understand the need to make money as a company, but it really is biting the hand that fed messing with open source maintainers

They really think we're idiots!

Marketing people try to explain away mistakes with doublespeak. Isn’t it grand? They keep digging deeper at this point.
Post reply on HN