This is SOP for negotiation. Candidates do this shit too, trying to claim some sort of inflated salary boost for every thing they give up from their previous employer. It's a game and the lesser negotiator loses out.
Google's "free food" is not free
171–180 of 181 posts
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#172Maybe Im just a calculating, cold, emotionless engineer but when it comes to pay packages Ive stopped caring about the fancy 'perks'. I only try to gauge how much Ill get paid, how much Ill enjoy the work and learn, and how many hours Ill be putting in. Ive seen perks too many times used against employees. (The following rant is nothing towards Google - never worked there.) - Free food and onsite amenities usually is…
This is somewhat of a tangent, but free lunch is a very important perk for me (note: I don't work at Google). For $15 a day, I could order in food every day and effectively have free lunch, wherever I worked. But I also wouldn't - in the back of my mind, I'd know that the $90 could be used to go and see the opera or a Broadway show, so I'd cook, or go and eat at Subway or whatever. So I'm not sure what I value that perk at, but I think just not having to even think about the lunch part of my day is important. I would weigh this as a positive, say a $5000 benefit.
The company that I work at has "no vacation policy". Honestly, that makes me the most hesitant, and to be honest, I don't really like that policy. However, senior management has been very good in two regards: they take vacations, and they encourage people to take vacations. So it does seem to work out. We're small right now, so it works, but I could see it being very easy to get wrong.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a good point. I've also worked at huge behemoths before, and I wish there had been internal mailing lists to rant on. The bureaucratic walls around innovation and product release were so tall that a healthy release of those frustrations would have been nice. It's good to see that Google's employees have something to complain about, but more importantly that they actually complain about it.
There is a danger with internal lists and rants, they are subject to discovery on lawsuits afaik (IANAL), so things have a tendency to not stay internal over time. Google may not have been bitten by this yet, but I imagine it is only a matter of time.
We're often reminded of this. There are some subjects you have to stay away from, but you can still rant.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#174Google claims to want to hire smart people. Google claims to these ostensibly smart people during the hiring process that the 'free food' is worth (cough) 20 grand in salary?! I sense a disturbance in the force.
Another problem with it is that food isn't as liquid as cash. I can't buy a car with their food. I can't buy a TV with their food. I can't even buy groceries with their food. Presumably, yes, I am going to have to buy some food anyway. However, perhaps I would prefer to buy something cheaper, and use the money for something else. Or, perhaps I would prefer to buy something more expensive, and not have to worry that I…
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be. When you're valuing a perk, the cost to the company should be ignored entirely. Any perk should be valued at what it's worth to you based on how often you'll use it, not what it costs the company.
You should definitely ask questions to see if there are reasons you wouldn't use it, but attempting to put that in the contract isn't going to work. There's no way a big company is going to complicate their facilities planning by making separate agreements with employees. Better to just assume it won't last forever.
Personally, not having to either cook or shop for dinner if I don't feel like it is worth quite a bit to me. To someone who goes home and eats with their family, it's not worth as much. I'm not going to put a dollar amount on it because I think that's just adding false precision to the calculation.
By the way, studies show that people often don't value the right things when they do a detailed calculation. For example, a short commute is more valuable (in terms of happiness) than an extra bedroom on the house, but many people will take the longer commute if they overthink it. [1]
[1] http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/blogs/happiness...
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sometimes I feel like the vast majority of annoyances I face at work should have a #firstworldproblems hashtag on them. I remember, I joined in Jan 2009 at the bottom of the recession, which was basically around the same time that all these perks were being cut. And people at work would gripe all about how the microkitchens weren't as good and they discontinued tea time and the cafes were closed on weekends. And then…
I absolutely despise this kind of thinking. The whole "firstworldproblems" meme pisses me off. You can extend this to anything. "People in Country X are starving so it's lame of me to complain about my 2-hour commute." "Children are being beaten in Country Y so I feel bad complaining about working on the weekend once a month." Ok, I'll even pull away from the hyperbole: "my friend Bob got laid off, so I shouldn't com…
I agree with you, somewhat (you seem to be extrapolating out the concept into a ludicrous example). However, we're talking about a recession. National, then global. Google apparently has to start cutting corners somewhere. To whine about having to walk thirty feet to some bagels, while people around you are losing their livelihood is, at best, distasteful.
There's a huge difference between being obsequious to an evil corporate master versus simply sucking it up in recognition of tighter times.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#176Sure, go ahead and screw the employees while the economy is bad. They'll stay on and grumble about it, because they can't go anywhere. People got laid off and were unable to find work, possibly ending their careers, and you're complaining about bagels being cut? Seriously?
No. Not seriously. You missed the point of her article. The point is she got screwed over by Google. What she was promised she didn't receive.
The point of her article was, as near as I can tell, that she mistakenly factored free food into her compensation.
My complaint is with her outlandish rhetoric around Google cutting back on some extravagances during a global recession.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#177Maybe Im just a calculating, cold, emotionless engineer but when it comes to pay packages Ive stopped caring about the fancy 'perks'. I only try to gauge how much Ill get paid, how much Ill enjoy the work and learn, and how many hours Ill be putting in. Ive seen perks too many times used against employees. (The following rant is nothing towards Google - never worked there.) - Free food and onsite amenities usually is…
Maybe I'm just a calculating, cold, emotionless engineer but when it comes to pay packages I've stopped caring about the fancy 'perks'. I only try to gauge how much I'll get paid, how much I'll enjoy the work and learn, and how many hours I'll be putting in. Well, that's normal and smart. You go to work for the work, not the diversions. I don't think I've ever played an XBox during working hours; if there's any possi…
Interesting thoughts on the Christmas parties. I guess the smallish company I work at (~40 people) has a different demographic because are Christmas parties definitely seem more low key, family oriented affairs. I think the average age in the office is still in the early 30s, we just don't really have any hardcore partiers or anything. I actually quite appreciate the opportunity to get together with everyone in a purely social setting and talk about stuff other than work.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't go so far as to call Google "evil" for reducing perks, but the microkitchens were a lot better before. They used to be overflowing with goodies, many perishable. After the bean-counter moment it was all dry cereal and prepackaged snacks. For me it was just a "shrug, whatever" moment. I realized that as a growing public company Google wanted to control costs more. And I might be weird, but excessive perks c…
"After the bean-counter moment it was all dry cereal and prepackaged snacks." You must be going to different MKs than I do. My experience is the MKs have always had (at least since Dec 2008, when I started) plenty of seasonal fresh fruit, pre-made salads and sandwiches in addition to the dried cereals and pre-packaged snacks. The perks are nice but are far from the top of the list of things that I would miss about wo…
yeah, i've been working there a few months, and the perks are very nice, but the people i get to work with, and the deep belief in code quality, are what makes it such a pleasure to work there. (that said, i'd be seriously upset if the shuttles were taken away).
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#179Maybe Im just a calculating, cold, emotionless engineer but when it comes to pay packages Ive stopped caring about the fancy 'perks'. I only try to gauge how much Ill get paid, how much Ill enjoy the work and learn, and how many hours Ill be putting in. Ive seen perks too many times used against employees. (The following rant is nothing towards Google - never worked there.) - Free food and onsite amenities usually is…
And dont forget that the Taxman will want to tax you on benefits in kind - or they will be if they are doing their job right
You don't get taxed on free food at work.
Re: Google's "free food" is not free
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Link? I am interested in salary negotiation techniques. Thank you.
It won't be published until Monday (US time). Your options for finding it then include emailing me, getting the RSS feed at kalzumeus.com, following me on Twitter (@patio11), or (not a given but also not the riskiest prediction I'll make this year) checking the HN front page.
Great. Thank you. I have subscribed to your RSS feed.