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Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

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Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#171

Post by codemac »

benjismith wrote: post #83

I must be one of the very very few software engineers that would prefer to RTO. (I'm not at Amazon, btw). I do enjoy the flexibility of being able to occasionally work from home. But I miss the bustling office culture, going out to lunch with coworkers, forming friendships with people from the office who don't necessarily work in the same department/team. Most days, I go into town and work from a WeWork (because it's…

I prefer the office as well. Work 4-5 days / week.

A big part is my employer allowed me to transfer to a closer office to my home, so now my commute is ~15 mins via light rail rather than ~1 hours via car.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#172

Post by x86x87 »

geodel wrote: post #59
x86x87 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imho Amazon has a big problem with its image and hiring. It is literally impossible to find good developers that want to work for Amazon. Taking advantage of the current market conditions to do this is going to spectacularly backfire once the market recovers.

Also, markets can stay irrational longer than people stay solvent.

I'm going to tell you what. I still remember the Microsoft layoffs in 2008. I was not impacted but at that point I decided I will never work for Ms again. Amazon is also on my "hell no" list.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#173

Post by theonlybutlet »

ptkanchi wrote: post #125

Let me preface this by saying I don't have much of an opinion for or against RTO, but I feel like there's too much emotion attached to companies mandating RTO by tech employees. I'm at a company that is mandating RTO and for the past couple months there has been tons of whining and moaning in public slack channels, team Q&As, company wide Q&As, HR Q&As, being passive aggressive etc. All this behavior has reeked of im…

The opposite is true. Employees are the ones ultimately doing the work and know what value they add. As they see it, they'd have to make outsized sacrifices to return to the office. Businesses have not provided any compelling reason to come back to the office, the actual workers doing the work know how little value it adds to their own stand-alone job. Raising the subject of maintaining remote work rather than pursuing opportunities elsewhere is collaboration, ironically the argument they put forward for RTO. It's a small concession from the company for the benefit of increased productivity, if that's not the reason then the company should explain it and sure as hell, it will need to be a compelling one.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#174

Post by x86x87 »

goostavos wrote: post #115
x86x87 wrote: post #2

this RTO mandates are getting old. Do people, in general, believe that we can revert to whatever we were doing before the pandemic started?

All you need are enough people to fall in line. Amazon is filled with workers on visas. At least from the subset I've talked to, this isn't the hill they plan to die on. "Come in or fuck off back to {home country}" is a pretty strong bargaining chip. For me, getting fired would mean taking a few months off to leisurely reset, then slowly getting back on the leetcode grind, and then trying to find a new remote job. Dr…

I agree. This is where the people that can draw lines in the sand are even more important.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#175

Post by mypalmike »

clpm4j wrote: post #101
benjismith wrote: post #83

I must be one of the very very few software engineers that would prefer to RTO. (I'm not at Amazon, btw). I do enjoy the flexibility of being able to occasionally work from home. But I miss the bustling office culture, going out to lunch with coworkers, forming friendships with people from the office who don't necessarily work in the same department/team. Most days, I go into town and work from a WeWork (because it's…

Do you mind me asking if you're under 30yrs old?

I'm over 50 and I'm in the same boat. Hybrid is ideal for me for the same reasons. I find collaboration on work to be more difficult when I don't have an in-person connection with my teammates.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#176

Post by twblalock »

weard_beard wrote: post #89
twblalock wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG total comp is a lot higher than what most other companies will pay. I think the parent poster is right -- the smaller companies will pay lower salaries and offer remote work, and the larger companies will pay higher salaries and require at least 3 days per week in the office.

Contractor total comp is a lot higher than salary. I don't see anyone talking about the glamour and prestige, just the uncertainty and overhead. Companies that don't offer it 100% will be seen as "gig" equivalent. Cheap, manipulative, gross sweat shops.

Being a contractor means less income security than an employee, higher and more complicated taxes, and no benefits. There is not much "glamour and prestige" either.

Frankly most contractors do not make as much as FAANG employees, and even if they did, they would end up keeping less of it because of the taxes and paying for their own health care etc. Even contractors contracted by FAANG companies make less money than full-time employees at those companies.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#177

Post by spike021 »

benjismith wrote: post #83

I must be one of the very very few software engineers that would prefer to RTO. (I'm not at Amazon, btw). I do enjoy the flexibility of being able to occasionally work from home. But I miss the bustling office culture, going out to lunch with coworkers, forming friendships with people from the office who don't necessarily work in the same department/team. Most days, I go into town and work from a WeWork (because it's…

A lot of people will say to do your socializing outside of work.

IMO the kinds you described are really helpful for work collaboration and even politics.

Plus when you build better communication relationships with coworkers for regular chatter then it drastically improves respect and discourse in important team discussions and code reviews.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#179

Post by x86x87 »

rtp4me wrote: post #84
x86x87 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hah. i did ask. I also did ask about the metrics that are used to measure productivity. Do you want to hear what the answer was? crickets!

So, I guess at this point you have at least two options: * Go back to the office as expected * Look for another job Which one will you pursue?

If I had to make the choice it would be another job. Easy choice.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#180

Post by ipaddr »

twblalock wrote: post #98
ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest wins from covid will just be that we did a massive 3-year WFH experiment and overall it went just fine. Great, even, if you account for the fact that it wasn't just a WFH test in isolation, it was accompanied by a generation-defining negative psychological and virulogical event. We all went fully remote for three years during a terrible humanitarian crisis and nothing exploded (except inflation bu…

I don't think it went "just fine". It looked like companies were doing well because we were in a bubble market. I definitely feel, and observe, a noticeable decrease in productivity and speed of execution compared to where my org was a few years ago. I know others have noticed it too, including management. On top of all that, companies are expected to run leaner than before because now that the bubble is over, appare…

Times are tough.. let's spent what little money we have on renting an office space?
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