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Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

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Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#171

Post by indymike »

kennywinker wrote: post #118
macinjosh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The idea that everyone is forced to go to the same place and be educated the same way is dystopian, IMHO. What ever happened to diversity?

You can have diversity without turning education into a for-profit hellscape.

Who said schools have to be for profit? In my state we have vouchers, and most voucher money goes to schools operated by not-for-profits. We also have charter schools, and most of those are operated by for-profit companies. Either way, they offer a way to get kids into a better environment/institution than trying to fix a failing public school system.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#172

Post by kube-system »

hammock wrote: post #93
aaronyarborough wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is outcome measured?

School choice via vouchers, etc would allow parents to decide for themselves how outcome is measured Edit: why the downvotes? If you are uncertain of or unamenable to the way outcomes are measured, vouchers are a reasonable solution that puts the power in your hands

There’s a significant race and religion component to school choice.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#173

Post by bogomipz »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #5

[flagged]

From your link:

>'Representative Thomas Massie announces that he has introduced H.R. 899, a bill to abolish the federal Department of Education. The bill, which is one sentence long, states, “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2022.”'

That's not a serious bill. One sentence is the minimum required for this person to put out a press release. This is nothing more than a PR piece for the Representative. Even the most mundane and simple bills are in the 10's of pages.[1]

[1] https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/08/is-1000-pages-lo...

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#174

Post by chitowneats »

blamazon wrote: post #157
HEmanZ wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the cost of more financial problems for taxpayers? How do you balance those two?

Those teachers aren't burning the money. It goes back to the community around them as they spend it, generally.

We gave out a bunch of free money during the pandemic. What was the result of that?

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#175

Post by gjulianm »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #53
kshahkshah wrote: post #24

I'm in NJ where we value public education, for the most part. According to National Center for Education Statistics our average teacher pay was $77,489 in 2022. This is excluding benefits/pension. Well worth it.

If you value education, why does your state have unions that force pay based on seniority and not outcome?

Measuring "outcome" in education is very hard, specially when deciding pay, as it creates perverse incentives. For example, teachers optimizing for test results instead of actual education, disadvantaged classes getting less attention (because results will be worse so it will affect teacher's evaluation)... Evaluating teachers based on outcome is something that sounds good at first but it's plagued with problems no matter how you try to do it.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#176

Post by kneebonian »

kimbernator wrote: post #126
mwint wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply and demand, like always. The market cares not one bit about what someone “should” be paid, it cares about the price where no one is left willing to do the same job for less. If you want teachers to be paid more, increase the requirements to be a teacher. I’m a proponent of requiring at least n years experience in real world work, plus education in a hard science or trade.

Ideological divides aside, this is an obvious downside of modern capitalism; Value is defined as what brings in money, which I would wager 99% of people would generally agree is not the best definition for the public interest. It is the easiest to measure, though. Trite as it may be to say, there's an obvious value to attracting a larger amount of people to teaching, it's just hard to quantify and takes longer than m…

> this is an obvious downside of modern capitalism; Value is defined as what brings in money,

And in communism value is defined as what will get you promoted.

And in autocracy value is loyalty to the party line

And in Neo-Nazism value is what kills the most Jews

And so on and so forth, let's not pretend that people making short sighted decisions for personal gain is limited to a single economic system it may be more visible or exactrebated by one system or another but it isn't like Lusheynkinism was pushed because it helped the students of the USSR better feed their people.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#177

Post by sumeno »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #79
zwirbl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might work in doing what exactly?

It allows more choice. Why should a poor student be forced to have only one public school option?

There are a limited number of spots in private schools, if everyone suddenly has $x more dollars to spend on private schools the private schools will raise prices by at least $x to reduce demand. The wealthy will still be the ones in private schools and tax payer money is diverted to the private schools instead of the public schools while the poorest are still in public schools.

There are also other hurdles to poor kids attending private schools, for example private schools don't have school busses, so they are reliant on kids having parents with the ability to drop their kids off and pick them up every day.

Re: Sanders calls for minimum salary of $60000 for public school teachers

#179

Post by kristopolous »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #81
news_to_me wrote: post #44

My first “real” job after college (2013) I started at $60k. It was more than my mom, an elementary school teacher, ever made. It felt embarrassing. Teachers are at least as valuable as software developers (probably more), given their impact on society. Why do they make so little?

Because of targeted propaganda and attacks by an organized political group that holds, as an ideology, that public institutions should not exist and everything should be done by the private sector.

This suggests a large disparity that's culturally based which I've been unable to find. I can find a comparative disparity such as https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/10/teachers-pay-countrie...

But this isn't helpful. Those need to be normalized by the median by country and then expressed in some deviation metric to get a real idea.

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