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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#171

Post by tech234a »

ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #79

I really feel the author's pain. Apple is so developer-hostile that it's a wonder they have anyone developing for them at all. Maybe my bones are just too linux, but the AUDACITY of requiring that you pay money just to even get a foot in the door, but you also have to use their accursed operating system on your real computer? Disgusting. I can tolerate running iOS on my phone, which for pragmatic purposes I've alread…

> I wonder if I can automate re-installing it every week/year.

There are some third-party programs like AltStore that could help with this.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#172

Post by gnarbarian »

Spooky23 wrote: post #108
sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

The problem is the computer has changed, it’s not a computer, it’s a node in a ubiquitous global network. 2003 and 2023 are very different and we’re feeling the negative impacts of global connectivity. Look at the trackers like AirTag. A gadget to find your keys is incredibly useful, but can also turn into a device to aid criminal activity pretty readily.

any tool can be used for good or evil. To stop people from doing bad things we need to focus on correcting people's behaviors not on crippling our tools.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#173

Post by JKCalhoun »

chongli wrote: post #131
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps. Everyone likes to say “but would Apple would lose the $100/yr from all those hobbyists.” How many hobbyists do you think are out there right now paying $100/year just to load…

Steam charges you $100 per app that you upload to their store. That seems like a better business model. No App Store presence? No $100 required.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#175

Post by 411111111111111 »

chongli wrote: post #131
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

I think what Apple’s afraid of is an app like Facebook tricking/forcing users to sideload in order to bypass privacy protections and get full access to user data. I don’t think they’re at all worried about hobbyists sideloading open source apps. Everyone likes to say “but would Apple would lose the $100/yr from all those hobbyists.” How many hobbyists do you think are out there right now paying $100/year just to load…

I doubt any of that was really considered, honestly.

Apple wants to fully control the devices they're letting people use. Allowing side loading can only be considered a reduction in control of their devices, thus it's against their main mission.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#176

Post by closeparen »

sramsay wrote: post #68

What bothers me about this -- and it bothered me enough to leave the platform -- is not fees, or "hobby computing," or "it's just for my own use," or trying to figure out why this or that would be in Apple's interest. What bothers me is that it feels like an offense against the entire notion of what a computer is. I am, of course, aware that many (perhaps most) computers in the world are effectively appliances, but a…

I grew up at a time when a computer was a thing that any website you accidentally clicked on could totally and permanently hijack. I don't miss it. One-click zero-friction execution of arbitrary code with the full privileges of your user account was a bad and wrong design. Malware scanning, signatures, and heuristics were a hilariously inadequate answer to the risks. One of the best things that's ever happened in computing is moving beyond all this.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#177

Post by KerrAvon »

flohofwoe wrote: post #141
massysett wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

> When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook. That Macs are still somewhat open is just a happy historical accident. Enjoy it while it lasts :/

This is slippery-slope fearmongering. In reality, Apple has gone out of its way to ensure that Apple Silicon Macs can boot other operating systems if the user so desires, and can do so without sacrificing security.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#178

Post by ib33 »

rcstank wrote: post #66
fulafel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people in the global view don't have that kind of disposable income. Apart from low income economies also the disadvantaged, teens/kids, etc.

It's $8.25/mo if you save up for it each year.

That is 20% of the monthly minimum wage in some countries.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#179

Post by candiddevmike »

bob1029 wrote: post #20
candiddevmike wrote: post #6

Full PWA support can't come soon enough!

It's basically here. We've been using it in production for our clients for almost a year now. The #1 reason we are moving away from iOS native to web app is because of Apple's policies and how convoluted the signing experience is.

Push notifications and install prompt have not landed yet/enabled by default AFAIK. Once that happens, I am seriously considering leaving the App Store.

I hate the review process, I hate having to use capacitor, I hate their billing APIs, and I hate having to have a Mac build pipeline.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#180

Post by bob1029 »

ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #48
bob1029 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically here. We've been using it in production for our clients for almost a year now. The #1 reason we are moving away from iOS native to web app is because of Apple's policies and how convoluted the signing experience is.

Do PWAs have access to system things like being able to do background uploads and send system notifications?

We haven't encountered this use case yet with our product.

The only thing we ask for permission to use is the camera for purposes of imaging barcodes & documents. This seems to work really well, with the only caveat being that iOS will not grant access to most (any?) privileged resources unless the site is secured with TLS.

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