Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

All programming philosophies are about state

worldofbs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 254 posts

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#171

Post by deafpolygon »

kazinator wrote: post #73

Imperative: modifying state is the point of a bit-flipping machine; get out of my way so I can have fun! OOP: OK, I mostly had enough fun, can we try to tame the bit-flipping chaos with real-world analogies, without deflating all the fun? Functional: Any Monad is by definition an Endofunctor, which also means it's an object in the category of Endofunctors, where the monadic μ(flatMap) and η(unit) operators satisfy th…

Functional languages is what happens when you let a bunch of mathematicians get a hold of a compiler.

At it's core, it's about treating data like data and not about having to much about with "objects".

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#172

Post by TheUndead96 »

bawolff wrote: post #86
paper_good wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since everyone already clearly understand what he means, so let's avoid playing semantics and instead focus on being clear and straightforward. It seems that your questions are only leading to more confusion and not offering any valuable perspectives.

My objection was i thought the original comment was being rude, not that it was hard to understand.

Politeness is an orthogonal concept to truth. The article clearly states that programming philosophies "can be boiled down into a simple statement", and the comment you were referring to takes issue with this.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#173

Post by lelanthran »

xmonkee wrote: post #100
bcherny wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”

God, this is such condescending nonsense. The older I get, the more left I lean, because the more of the world you see the more you see what chaos our current ideology has wreaked upon it. The only people I see going the way this quote does are unthinking idiots who were fashionably "liberal" in their youth without understanding any political theory, and are now fashionably "conservative" with even lesser understandi…

> The older I get, the more left I lean, because the more of the world you see the more you see what chaos our current ideology has wreaked upon it.

That sword cuts both ways.

The more you see of the world, the more you treasure what the current ideology has brought.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#174

Post by ahartmetz »

kazinator wrote: post #73

Imperative: modifying state is the point of a bit-flipping machine; get out of my way so I can have fun! OOP: OK, I mostly had enough fun, can we try to tame the bit-flipping chaos with real-world analogies, without deflating all the fun? Functional: Any Monad is by definition an Endofunctor, which also means it's an object in the category of Endofunctors, where the monadic μ(flatMap) and η(unit) operators satisfy th…

...and it's a real shame that Haskell has to be like that. I feel like much of the, sorry, mathematical wankery, is well separable from the stuff that actually makes program behavior more predictable in the functional style. I hear that F# has some success at doing exactly that.

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#176

Post by creshal »

wruza wrote: post #154

I’ve been a programmer all my life, got first sw job around 2000 in business-oriented area (consulting + programming + “ops”). Before that were 5-7 years of toy programming as a kid. I experimented with tech a lot, got into paradigms early and never restricted myself to a single language/env/os/hw. I haven’t created nothing big, stellar or rocket science, but a couple of my projects lived for 10-17 years and counting…

For a lot of small to medium scale business software, state tends to be managed mostly by one central, source of truth, database that business logic gets applied to; there it does not matter much with what paradigm you handle the "request" state (be that a network request or a GUI/TUI request interface).

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#178

Post by auggierose »

noduerme wrote: post #74
_skel wrote: post #56

The article is grouping things together that don't belong in the same categories. OO, functional, imperative, declarative: these are ways of controlling dispatch . Monoliths and microservices are both ways to organize codebases and teams of programmers and control whether dispatch is intermediated by the network or not. Either way, both of these options are implemented by some kind of language in the previous categor…

I agree this is mixing apples and oranges. To the degree that server architecture has to preserve state in various situations, though, coming from running my own dedicated monoliths and federated systems to service-oriented architecture about a decade ago, I have to grudgingly admit that the service model really is just cleaner and easier to wrangle. I'm thinking right now of a major version DB upgrade I have to pull…

Would you say that this distinction between SOA and micro services is correct, which I found in an O'Reilly report [1]:

> One of the fundamental concepts to remember is that microservices architecture is a share-as-little-as-possible architecture pattern that places a heavy emphasis on the concept of a bounded context, whereas SOA is a share-as-much-as-possible architecture pattern that places heavy emphasis on abstraction and business functionality reuse. By understanding this fundamental concept—as well as the other characteristics, capabilities, and shortcomings of both micro‐ services and SOA that I discussed in this report—you can make a more informed decision about which architecture pattern is right for your situation.

Or is this a distinction you would not make (or were not even aware of)?

[1] Mark Richards - Microservices vs. Service-Oriented architecture

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#179

Post by jsty »

harry8 wrote: post #112
strangemonad wrote: post #59

I used to think this until I read Whitehead and Hickey and realized it’s all about time

I thought maybe you were referring to a known text or paper. "whitehead and Hickey" search links back to this comment and only one other thing that can't be relevant. So, WTF are you talking about that we should know it and search engines don't?

Rich Hickey's "Simple Made Easy" talk discusses value and time - how mutability ties these together such that value is always time-dependent - and the complexity that results.

https://github.com/matthiasn/talk-transcripts/blob/master/Hi...

Re: All programming philosophies are about state

#180

Post by rothron »

wruza wrote: post #154

I’ve been a programmer all my life, got first sw job around 2000 in business-oriented area (consulting + programming + “ops”). Before that were 5-7 years of toy programming as a kid. I experimented with tech a lot, got into paradigms early and never restricted myself to a single language/env/os/hw. I haven’t created nothing big, stellar or rocket science, but a couple of my projects lived for 10-17 years and counting…

It's more of an issue the more network-y and multi-cpu your ecosystem is. I find the post rather banal and obvious. The state is literally the how and what.
Post reply on HN