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D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

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Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#171

Post by Overtonwindow »

kennywinker wrote: post #160
Overtonwindow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite true… A few years ago, the district of Columbia decriminalized fare evasion. So many people stopped paying the subway fare that the gap in the budget became very significant on the order of millions of dollars. What you see as a small component of transit systems budgets, they seem to see as a quite significant part of their budget. I think this is going to lead to worst outcomes, and a worse funded system.…

I don’t trust those “lost revenue” figures. What are they based on? My city used to not have fare gates. They made up insane estimates for how much adding fare gates would increase revenue - when the gates went in it ended up costing far more per year than it earned in increased revenue. And 40 million is not a small number for a person, but for a city with a budget of about 20 billion it’s not a very large number at…

I can't really do your research for you, but I guess if you looked at the budgets which are publicly available for the Washington metro area, transportation authority, you might find out.

Also, WMATA's budget is separate from the city...

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#172

Post by mixmastamyk »

scrollaway wrote: post #108
mixmastamyk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want transportation free of sleepers and walking dead, there must be fares and gates. Otherwise you’ll end up with the horrors of the LA Metro… meth heads smoking up, stairs dripping with blood, etc.

Some Americans will believe anything that helps them push away the thought that their social safety net is broken.

No belief here, seen with my own eyes. Nationalism not a good look.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#173

Post by mixmastamyk »

scrollaway wrote: post #80
SamReidHughes wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently a train opened up that connects downtown to where I live, not free, but ticketing isn't really enforced. There had previously been bus service, and of course, roads. Now the place is populated with bums, the nearby Starbucks removed indoor seating, the supermarket, once open 24 hours and a place for van-dwelling homeless to use computers, now has gates up to inhibit shoplifting, and what was once a safe area…

Oh stop. No, this isn't the "cost of free public transit" - first of all, it's not even "free public transit". It's the cost of your local administration not dealing with the homeless population correctly. It's the cost of a terrible social net.

It’s called a prerequisite.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#174

Post by sien »

ahahahahah wrote: post #132
dx034 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see that 25% number? According to Wikipedia, most systems around the world seem to be >50%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

I feel like your comment is rather disingenuous, given that almost everything there that covers the U.S. is actually well below my generous "25%" and (even beyond the sort of U.S. being the default for HN discussions the topic we are discussing is specifically a U.S. case). The biggest case from your link above that threshold would generally not even be considered "public transportation" (Amtrak, that is). Given how…

Amtrak also includes State subsidies as 'revenue'. They also don't count depreciation. They then want 45Bn or some such enormous figure for maintenance from the Feds.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2183214

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#175

Post by yasinaydin »

alibarber wrote: post #109
woodruffw wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tallinn is the most famous free one, I think. In terms of nominal pricing, I was thinking of Grenoble, where it was around $2 USD equivalent when I was there there. Edit: Another example is Prague, which is around $1.

Tallinn is not (all?) free. The tram is at least €1.50 for 90 mins transfer. Helsinki is €3.10 I live in Helsinki and spent a lot of time last year in Tallinn - the ‘transit is free in Europe’ thing is very much an exception rather than a rule.

Free public travel is only for Tallinn residents (main address registered inside Tallinn city borders).

I think there's also free public travel for tourists with cars if they park their car (in certain places or under certain circumstances).

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#176

Post by cinntaile »

Retric wrote: post #151
cinntaile wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a solved problem, don't allow paying on the bus and require them to buy their ticket beforehand.

The driver or buss still needs to verify your ticket. Compare a line of 20 people all try to get on and swipe a metro card vs a line of 20 people all trying to get on. Even collage busses where all people need to do is show school ID you still get people in line who suddenly can’t find their ID.

A public transport bus usually has several entrances, you can have a machine inside the bus at each entrance. Not everyone will play nice and pay if the bus driver doesn't check the ticket, but you could have random controls on the bus from time to time. In practice you of course have to weigh the costs of these different approaches.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#177

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #164
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no, poor people might share the bus with me. Wouldn't want poor or mentally ill folks to do things like get to a doctors appointment, buy food, or visit family if they can't get there invisibly. /s. Now is when I'd like to remind you that you share spaces with mentally ill folks every single day and you don't notice a thing: A lot of destitute folks are disable and being destitute shouldn't mean that you have to…

You’ve obviously never taken the LA metro episode of the walking dead. And the ignorance shows.

1. Of course I'm not going to reference a TV show. They aren't exactly known for realism. I've seen how they think poor people live, after all.

2. One line, a city, or a few riders isn't an issue with busses, be they with or without fares. That's society not taking care of folks. Plus, it would be ridiculous to think that it would be like this everywhere.. because it isn't like this everywhere now.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#178

Post by mixmastamyk »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #177
mixmastamyk wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve obviously never taken the LA metro episode of the walking dead. And the ignorance shows.

1. Of course I'm not going to reference a TV show. They aren't exactly known for realism. I've seen how they think poor people live, after all. 2. One line, a city, or a few riders isn't an issue with busses, be they with or without fares. That's society not taking care of folks. Plus, it would be ridiculous to think that it would be like this everywhere.. because it isn't like this everywhere now.

If you really want to help folks, get them a home and treatment first. Before inflicting your "utopia" on us transit riders.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#179

Post by mixmastamyk »

pugworthy wrote: post #120

What gets me about the comments is that some of you who are the most negative are in big cities. Us little town folks with free bus service? We just don't have those negatives and we don't necessarily have the same negative opinions of it. At least if you are going to call it bad, preface your opinion with what your reality is, and acknowledge your reality isn't necessarily universal.

Transit is even more expensive in sparse areas. If you are rich enough as a community to afford it being free, why not?

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#180

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #178
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Of course I'm not going to reference a TV show. They aren't exactly known for realism. I've seen how they think poor people live, after all. 2. One line, a city, or a few riders isn't an issue with busses, be they with or without fares. That's society not taking care of folks. Plus, it would be ridiculous to think that it would be like this everywhere.. because it isn't like this everywhere now.

If you really want to help folks, get them a home and treatment first. Before inflicting your "utopia" on us transit riders.

How are they supposed to get to treatment if there isn't a transit system to help them with that?

And of course folks should have housing and treatment. The reason we have issues in some areas is because they aren't doing that. It doesn't meant that we shouldn't provide public transport to everyone that wants it, though. It is quite possible to do more than one thing at the same time.

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