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The limits of "computational photography"

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Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#171
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual image is right below it in the post.

That's the image captured by a different camera (it's labeled "Fujifilm X-T5" and is from a different angle). The input I'm interested here is what the phone camera's sensor received prior to processing.

He mentions that the phone did display something close to that for a brief moment.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#172
Yep, smartphone cameras are optically terrible, which is then compensated for with clever tricks. These tricks optimize for popular use cases: people, food, etc.

One aspect that is little discussed is the inflated quality perception of such a photo when seen on the actual device, an iPhone in this case.

iPhones have an incredible screen. OLED, wide gamut color, high PPI. A photo looks radically better on an iPhone compared to opening the same photo on a standard monitor.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#173
post #172

Yep, smartphone cameras are optically terrible, which is then compensated for with clever tricks. These tricks optimize for popular use cases: people, food, etc. One aspect that is little discussed is the inflated quality perception of such a photo when seen on the actual device, an iPhone in this case. iPhones have an incredible screen. OLED, wide gamut color, high PPI. A photo looks radically better on an iPhone co…

Apple also uses non-standard HEIF tags to allow for HDR photo display of photos taken by Apple devices. Last time I checked, you couldn't (easily) take a photo from a dedicated camera (which has more than enough dynamic range to justify HDR) and turn it into a file that would get rendered as HDR on iPhone.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#174

The smartphone cameras have improved a lot in the recent years, but they cannot compete or match a full frame sensor provided the limitations. The size of the sensor and the optics play a major role in the final image quality and one can only do so much with the computational photography or whatever method. Especially the iPhone photography and videography is always overrated by the fanbois and some of the "professio…

My $0.02 as some one with an expensive full-frame DSLR and and the latest iPhone Pro: There are entire categories of image quality that only Apple seems to bother even trying to improve — and then they leapt past everyone. A few years ago if you wanted to make a HDR, 4K, 60 fps Dolby Vision wide-gamut video… That would have cost you. Tens of thousands on cameras, displays, and software. It would have been a serious u…

"Everything everywhere is 8-bit SDR sRGB."

Right, because a 10 bit wide gamut desktop display isn't affordable to the vast majority of people?

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I do not have an iPhone. How easy is the 'RAW' feature to find? I understand what you mean about most users do not need such a feature. But while supporting computers I am surprise how many features of programs users do not know exist not just because they do not use them but also how hard it is to get at some features. Personally, I seen too many programs where you need to know to turn OFF certain functions b…

To find the RAW feature you need to do two things: Go to Settings -> Camera -> toggle Apple ProRAW on Then in the Camera app there will be a "RAW" button that you can tap on to enable RAW capture Third party camera apps like Halide ( https://halide.cam ) focus on just using the RAW capabilities by default

+1 for Halide, which I didn't know about. Apple doesn't give non-Pro 13s access to RAW images (that I know of), but Halide does out of the box. The camera AI was driving me crazy on my 13mini; now I have a solution. Are there other similar apps of similar quality? In particular, I'd love an excellent BW app which is (at least relatively) AI-free.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#176
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Not only that, but pulling out my phone and quickly snapping a shot is often better than quickly pulling out my non-phone cameras - especially in challenging lighting conditions. I absolutely can get better shots with my non-phone cameras, but they take more work.

I understand carrying and taking shot with a DSLR is much more involved than pulling out a phone from a pocket, but have you ever used compact cameras with 1" censor like a Sony RX100 or Canon G9x ? They both fit in your pocket and startup as fast as you can activate the camera on your phone. Out of habit I usually reach the power button inconsciently when grabbing it from my pocket and the lense is usually extending…

Well now we're getting into the old adage, whatever camera I have with me. I always have my phone and many times have my Z5 or d7100. There isn't much space to add another camera.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#177

This is not a new problem and can sometimes have disastrous results. 10 years or so ago a variation of this made headlines all over as certain Xerox Workcentres were transposing numbers during scans, due to a compression algorithm that was sometimes matching a different number than the one actually scanned. https://www.theregister.com/2013/08/06/xerox_copier_flaw_mea...

The same algorithm was part of the legendary NSO Group's FORCEDENTRY zero click exploit.

https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-deep-dive-i...

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#178
This looks like iPhone postprocessing problem more than anything else. I have used 3 Google pixel phones (up to pixel 4) and none of them does bad post-processing. In fact, it improves the resolution of whatever you are taking picture of https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/10/see-better-and-further-wit...

I never saw any of these phones altering the details like in article.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#179
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently started collecting a few of the digital cameras I lusted after as a kid. It made me realize there's a huge population of cameras out there that would produce incredible photos if not for small details. Details like not having readily available batteries, or an odd cable or memory card limitation. The biggest one for me personally is CCD degradation in cameras that don't have a built in pixel mapping functi…

I have used a program called Pixel Fixer which can learn a profile of each of your cameras and directly process out the dead pixels in the RAW files in a batch operation. It hasn't been updated in about 8 years so it doesn't necessarily support anything too recent, and is not open source, but I had some success with using it.

Does it support jpegs? Most of the cameras in question don't support RAW output but the problems are individual stuck pixels that are identical between every shot.

Re: The limits of "computational photography"

#180

I'm surprised the author is unfamiliar with Google Camera and its super-resolution features[1,2], which uses actually clever algorithms to push digital photography beyond what would be physically possible to get out of a naive set of HDR exposures, both in terms of resolution and dynamic range. It's literal magic. [1] https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/10/see-better-and-further-wit... [2] https://petapixel.com/2019/05/28…

I have used 3 pixels and never seen any of this bad post processing as shown by author. I never thought iPhones camera could do bad post processing like this.

Seen this in cheap point and shoot cameras and cheap chinese phones though.

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