Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#171

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

JCM9 wrote: post #150

pwthornton wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big tech layoffs should work differently than most industries and may not impact unemployment as much. Big tech employees a lot of H1B visas holders. If they cannot quickly find a new job, they will have to leave the country.

I get the practical element of this stinks, but technically that’s what H1Bs are about. The original sponsor said we have to bring this person into the country since nobody else here can do this incredibly important highly in demand thing. If people aren’t tripping over themselves to snatch up someone that came into the market with those skills then the attitude of the government is maybe it’s no longer rare or in hi…

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#172

Post by superfrank » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

Same. It sells papers right now to paint CEOs as these omniscient villains who's only goal is the crush their workers, but I just don't buy it. There are plenty of CEOs like Satya Nadella who seem like pretty decent people. I'm sure some companies see this as a way to drive down worker leverage, but I think a lot are just reacting to the market change and realizing they have more employees than they need in areas that they don't feel will be profitable in the future.

I also think there's a bit of follow the leader going on, where, now that layoffs have started, no one wants to be left at a disadvantage. If you do layoffs that you may not actually need, at least you're staying on par with your competition. If you don't do layoffs and the market gets worse, you risk falling behind.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#173

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

nicholasjarnold wrote: post #143

irrational wrote: post #106

I’ve never worked for Big Tech, I’ve never even worked in one of the big tech hubs (Bay Area, anywhere in California, Seattle, Austin, NY, etc.), but I do have a hefty 6 figure salary because of the tech workers in those areas. My worry is my company will start to look at laying us off so they can replace us with laid off tech workers at a much lower rate.

To add a counterpoint - I've heard senior executives remark about the likelihood that many of those let go are the not the employees that you really _want_ to pickup. The reasoning they've implied there is that these big companies that hire so voraciously have simply made some mistakes along the way and used the current happenings to jettison those mistakenly-hired employees swiftly and efficiently. Note: I'm sure ma…

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#174

Post by y-c-o-m-b » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:44 PM UTC

jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #123

I think this article ignores a lot of realities of the market to reach its conclusion. Many of these companies did record hiring during the pandemic while there stock values have plummeted and while we may not yet be in a recession its pretty clear one is coming. All these factors have investors worried and the reality is that public companies need to placate investors and layoffs are one tool in that toolbox. Do the…

I agree, I don't think this was the intention behind these lay-offs, but I think they will begin to weaponize layoffs like this at some point to curb salary increases and worker power.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#175

Post by AlwaysRock » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made.

The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the theater down." i.o was closed for some period of time (1+ year) and then came back. The changes asked for were not made. Performers were happy just to get on stage again.

I think about that a lot when I see people making demands. Sometimes companies can/will just say no or worse find some reason to let the person go. It's frustrating but as the individual its so hard to get any meaningful change when you have no real power.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#176

Post by aeternum » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

bushbaba wrote: post #153

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

Unemployment doesn’t show laid off employees who aren’t yet collecting unemployment benefits. These tech workers got at least 60 days of severance thanks to the warn act.

Like most modern legislation, the warn act is way too long and thus filled with loopholes.

Lawyers have already come up with many ways to avoid it and companies are putting them to good use.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#177

Post by Apocryphon » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

Phlarp wrote: post #137

s1artibartfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that they have changed. People brought it up before and people are bringing it up now and they'll continue bringing it up. I think the tech workers are generally still opposed to the idea

The reaction I got from previous pithy comments on unionization in past years vs. the reaction I got today from a pithy comment about unionization is absolutely night and day. The volume and pace of upvotes was eye popping and the comments have actually been discussing the merits of unionization and the realities of big tech as a labor force instead of incoherent screeching about the benevolence of FAANG

It’s frustrating because the logic never changed, only the environment has. Some people called it years ago:

LarryDarrell on July 8, 2019 | parent | context | favorite | on: Employee activism in tech stops short of organizin...

My worry is that without premature organization, the next recession is going to make the "tech worker shortage" a permanent thing of the past. We'll never have as much negotiating power as we do now.

If say there was a Tech Workers Union/Guild/Association, we might have been able to protect the older workers at IBM, or the outsourced workers at Disney. Maybe there could be a push back against open offices and poorly implemented Agile. As it is, we're just better compensated workers floating from job to better job.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20384298

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#178

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

j245 wrote: post #159

giantg2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The earnings of a hedge fund manager who makes 1.5 million pounds a day is inflated. Not a software engineer living a decidedly middle class life." Haha, ok. Can you not clearly see your own subjective bias? Why doesn't that hedgefund manager deserve it? Many of the people working for tech companies are not middle class. At the very least, $500k+ salaries are above middle class. The starting salary at most top-tier…

Hedge funds are parasites, they are an edge case in capitalism that needs to be patched. I can’t think of anything else that takes so much, while adding nothing to society.

They provide asset management and investment opportunity.

Not all hedge funds are malicious.

We can also see issues in tech that are similar. Look at all the hate Meta gets for their business model - using addicting algorithms to gather and sell users' info. There can certainly be an argument made here about the potential societal damage they cause being a parasite.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#179

Post by killjoywashere » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:47 PM UTC

ejb999 wrote: post #147

killjoywashere wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

hiring managers are not that dumb ... if you prior job is amazon, and you are applying for a new job 2 months after 18K have been laid off - they can put 2 and 2 together pretty easily. Even if you did leave on your own accord, they will likely assume you were let go. It's almost always easier to get a new job, when you still have one.

Maybe. They also might see the opportunity to get some inside skinny on Amazon, and anything they pay you will be cheap compared to the value of the intel.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#180

Post by btbuildem » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 4:47 PM UTC

The corporate ghouls at our company just announced a non-negotiable RTO, but notably, no layoffs.

Since company execs seem to be like a flock of sheep - one gets spooked and they all run in the same direction - I'm betting my company can't afford to do layoffs, even though they'd want to follow suit.

From what I hear in the grapevine, we've had a devil of a time trying to hire over the past couple of years.