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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#171

Post by johnp314 »

A few years back I attended the RSA Conference in San Francisco and stayed at an AirBnB in Haight-Ashbury district. I discovered a nearby restaurant, Zazie, that advertised on their web site they were "proud to be tip free" so I tried it. I had dinner there more than once over my week stay in SF and it was so nice to get a credit card receipt with no space for tip and a reminder from the server that no tip was wanted. The service was great and the prices did not seem excessive compared to other places.

Many of the comments here have discussed how without tips paying a living wage would compel higher prices. I ask, what's the difference between a higher up-front price on the menu for the item or a lower price with the expectation that at payment you'll pay 20% more? I prefer the simplicity and less pressure of a bill with no space for "tip", that the price you see on the menu is the price you will pay when finished eating.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#172

Post by brightlancer »

I like tipping at bars and restaurants: it eliminates the middle-man between me and the person providing the service, and I can reward (or consequently punish) servers who provide good or great (or poor) service.

But in other cases, I see the tip line and click Zero. It makes the math easy.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#173

Post by kylehotchkiss »

godelski wrote: post #58
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

We don't have to outlaw it but we should do something more difficult: make it not the social norm.

I went to a religious university and there was a certain ethics class everybody was required to take. A discussion topic one day was about how to advertise you were a member of this faith while out and about, and the topic of tipping came up. The lecture pretty much worked out like you should be tipping big! People don't treat waiters so well after the religious service ends! At least 20% to share the good news:tm: with them! Oddly, this same class never took the same effort to address how to advertise to any other class of people.

I get this sounds like a random aside, but tipping is something that religious communities at least try to connect to people with (which surprisingly includes patrons who leave $0 tip and a "here's a tip, your pathway to %afterlife%" business card). If there was a push to make it not the social norm, I could see churches crusading to keep it a part of our culture forever.

Maybe it'd be OK to outlaw it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#174

Post by jacktribe »

akomtu wrote: post #162
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

If you show the full price with taxes upfront, that's an astonishing level of integrity. One idea is to print qr codes on coffee cups: customers can scan those and leave anonymous feedback later.

Taxes are included.

We might do the QR for customers that did not order using the app on their phone. We're printing stickers anyway, using the Star Micronics SDK which makes QR code printing a breeze.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#175

Post by zzzeek »

joegahona wrote: post #166
zzzeek wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ive never heard of servers or bartenders doing that. they are pretty good here about being fair to people.

Bartenders and other service-industry workers absolutely prioritize good tippers. I was a valet-parking attendant in my 20s, which allowed me to pay my way through college, and you’d better believe we gave better service to the regulars who threw us a $20 on the way in. If a large function breaks and two guests hand you their claim check, one with a $5 and one with nothing else, who do you think is getting their car…

confession, I actually dont have a high opinion about college-age kids who do valet parking :) you're never going to have a system where people aren't doing what you describe, someone's always going to slip them a 20 or whatever. how do you stop that?

Talking here about bartenders with a crowded bar to handle. They tend to be a little more mature and I've never had issues with bigger tippers making it impossible for me to get served.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#176

Post by Swizec »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #106
godelski wrote: post #30

One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well t…

> The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping The alternative is getting a restaurant to entirely change its identity. Their POS system will always have a spot for tip on a receipt. Their prices are based on the fact that they expect customers to tip the servers at least 15-25%. It's a monumental change. It's not just "pa…

> The customer wouldn't like that.

I’m already paying that much. If you keep the same total price but put it on your menu instead of making it an end-of-meal surprise, that is much preferred thanks.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#177

Post by kylehotchkiss »

scrollaway wrote: post #97
boomchinolo78 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Who is harmed? Are we to pretend all waiters do an equally good job? Good service gets good tips, bad service, not good. It's just an incentive system. The only reason it starts to breakdown is because there are really cheap people out there who will skimp on the tip and then complain when waiters treat them like shit. If you are a regular at a place and you tip well, they'll spoil you.

So when you get bad service in the US, you don't tip? I've gotten bad service while traveling in the US - how can I not tip? Someone tell me, please, because when I'm paying it's usually before I even get the service and I'm already supposed to pre-pay a 20 percent tip or some such from a checkout prompt that doesn't always let me opt out. Or when it does let me opt out, it's in plain view of the staff, of course; in…

Growing up, i've been told leave at least 15%, or 10% if the service is atrocious, but never 0% if you plan on showing up to the same place again, or if anybody you know might find out. Being accused of tipping $0 is not generally something want to carry around with them

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#178

Post by kylehotchkiss »

moomoo11 wrote: post #28
pirate787 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worry if I don't tip, they will vandalize my food. It's a hostage situation. I limit my use of the services because of it.

I've faced that after moving to SF. Stopped eating out unless its a actually special high end place or something. I was in a rush and didn't put a tip, I found a hair in my fried rice and the tofu was not fully cooked. I'd ordered from that place a couple times before and its like $22 with tip for just Thai red curry with rice.. The prices are insane. Even if I made 10x what I make, I wouldn't eat out unless its real…

Here's a tip: report this to the department of public health!

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#179

Post by jjav »

zzzeek wrote: post #168
jjav wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So...maybe tip in the meantime? Do you tip every employee in every industry that might be making minimum wage?

no, I tip in establishments where the workers are service workers who explicitly asking for tips, as well as for specific transactions where tipping is customary hence expected. note that restaurant workers in the US make less than minimum wage before tips in many cases.

> no, I tip in establishments where the workers are service workers who explicitly asking for tips, as well as for specific transactions where tipping is customary hence expected.

Hopefully you see the inconsistency here? You mentioned that minimum wage has not increased in a long time so people making are underpaid (true). And that tipping is somehow the solution. But unless you tip everyone you ever interact with that might be making minimum wage, that's a highly inconsistent position.

Instead we can simply raise minimum wage to a living wage and outlaw tipping. Fair to everyone.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#180

Post by kylehotchkiss »

I don't hate the 10% "service charge" fees I see abroad. It's automatically added, can be removed if you really have an issue, and 10% is a fair charge for being waited on. Wish payment terminals could move towards this. No guilt 10% charge, bury the option to increase it for those who want, and remove it entirely if you're unsatisfied with service.
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