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Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

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Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#171
post #89

Evan, thanks for taking the time to write this up. I helped resolve your particular issue on NYE and I’m acutely aware of how painful it’s been. I broadly agree with a lot of your statements. The lack of clear communication and the repetitive requests for information during the review process isn’t good. We’re working on striking the right balance between giving good users relevant information without giving bad acto…

John here from Stripe (I lead our Risk product area). As OP noted, we try to spot unexpected spikes in processing volume, which are often associated with risky activity. In this case, that was in error — we were too fast to act and (much) too slow to unwind. In particular, we erred in not taking congruent action across OP’s related accounts. We’re working on a fix for this. I’m following up with OP to make sure we fu…

If Stripe doesn't acknowledge they made a mistake, one could say mistakes are down 100%.

It's tough to track metrics like that.

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#172
Why[1] am[2] I[3] not[4] surprised[5] in[6] the[7] slightest[8]?[9]

Stripe even ghosts people in their job interviews[10].

I've only been on HN for a few years, but I repeatedly see people having horror stories with Stripe like this. Are there really no acceptable alternatives?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32854528

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28522784

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9738717

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30535572

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32261868

[6] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34233011

[7] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29712023

[8] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34035581

[9] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18870886

[10] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29387264

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. It is an interesting question. Personally, this is one of the things I credit Amazon with ( "removing friction","customer obsession" ). Whether I call, chat or send an email, the result is a consistent and decent customer service that can get stuff done ( and where it can't, it can escalate to those that can ). I am not sure you should equate me signing up for a 3rd party broker not only accepted, but a given. I…

> I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone You can reach them by phone, but it's not the way things are commonly done, so you're going to get suboptimal results. You can also mail them a letter (the snail mail kind), but I expect you'll receive even poorer results than by phone doing so given that it is even less common to conduct business by mail. For better or worse t…

I did, eventually, and I am voicing my discontent over having to do so.

I received some support ( as flawed as it was, which reflects poorly on the company ) and that customer service number exists, therefore phone support exists and therefore I ,also apparently, pay for phone support. In other words, I think your argument is flawed.

That said, I think you are wrong in a much grander sense.

The question is not whether I pay for non-existent support. The question is why we allow oligopolies to run amok, because I am fairly certain if more options were available, this run towards the bottom would not be so awful from customer experience perspective, where CEOs are only focused on 'how to squeeze out more out of this rock' with the solution being: "I know. We will let them complain online and use that as our call center. Think of the savings." and NOT "How can we make our service better so that customers don't leave for greener pastures?".

That is the question.

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#174
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company I’ve spent the last 5 years at (just resigned to emigrate) has a rule. If you come across an unhappy customer and don’t do anything, you should be fired. 10k employees, insurance, banking. Nobody moaned because we understand the reasons for it. I embraced it and have escalated many calls. In a world of indifference, that’s a solid stake in the ground.

A well-known home improvement retailer has a similar rule: you take the time to help anyone with an issue resolve it, or directly hand them off to another employee who can help. No pointing and then ignoring. Or email forwarding and then ignoring. Granted, everyone is busy and it isn't always followed, but as a guiding organizational foundation one can do a lot worse.

Ours was anywhere. You come across what seems like a frustrated client in a pharmacy, you identify yourself and help. I've helped people who expressed anger at social events. Can't always fix the issue but the company's app has a place for staff to escalate, so it's easy to kickstart the process.

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#175
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's the explanation, and yeah, most people here knew it already. But every thing with that is wrong. That part in particular "workers typically have very little authority to escalate or fix more complex issues" is a plain and straight refusal to solve any problem the company may cause.

What fascinates me is that companies obsessed with KPIs don't seem to independently count unfixed issues. Firewalling customer support behind another company or division is okay, but at least make sure you have a parallel feedback mechanism to know how they're doing! Social media support seems like the shitty version of this, but it's not rocket science to be able to regularly independently audit a random subset of i…

Customer support, at a company that is not obsessed with customer support and satisfaction, is typically "check the box". They have to provide some sort of support. It is seen as a cost center rather than as a face of the company. "number of unfixed issues" isn't relevant if you perceive customer support as perfunctory.

As a result, for many companies obsessed with KPIs, the only KPI for customer support is "price". In that lens, they are optimizing.

Obviously this situation is awful for customers.

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Authorize.net for years. Can't imaging using some service that can hold my money hostage. While Authorize.net is "old-school", it is flexible and you are in control. Remind me again why people use Stripe?

It's now owned by VISA. :(

Is unfortunate - but doesn't change my positive points

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone You can reach them by phone, but it's not the way things are commonly done, so you're going to get suboptimal results. You can also mail them a letter (the snail mail kind), but I expect you'll receive even poorer results than by phone doing so given that it is even less common to conduct business by mail. For better or worse t…

I did, eventually, and I am voicing my discontent over having to do so. I received some support ( as flawed as it was, which reflects poorly on the company ) and that customer service number exists, therefore phone support exists and therefore I ,also apparently, pay for phone support. In other words, I think your argument is flawed. That said, I think you are wrong in a much grander sense. The question is not whethe…

> therefore phone support exists and therefore I ,also apparently, pay for phone support.

My misunderstanding. So, in that case, you got what you think you are paying for and are clearly happy with what you got in return for your money as you continue to pay for it going forward. What's your concern again?

> I am fairly certain if more options were available, this run towards the bottom would not be so awful from customer experience perspective

Perhaps there aren't more options because you're too price sensitive? I'll give you all the top quality telephone support you could ever want for $10,000,000 per year, but I strongly suspect already that your answer is "no thanks". If I had to offer you phone support at the same price as T-Mobile it would be unquestionably worse, not having the economies of scale they have.

Since you are clearly happy with the product they offer, at least given the price they offer it at, how could any other options rise up? Anyone smaller trying to offer an alternative would have to charge more just to provide the same level of support, and a lot more to provide better support. Are you getting out your wallet to see that happen or is this one of those fake rants that "actions speak louder than words" was coined for?

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#178
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What fascinates me is that companies obsessed with KPIs don't seem to independently count unfixed issues. Firewalling customer support behind another company or division is okay, but at least make sure you have a parallel feedback mechanism to know how they're doing! Social media support seems like the shitty version of this, but it's not rocket science to be able to regularly independently audit a random subset of i…

Customer support, at a company that is not obsessed with customer support and satisfaction, is typically "check the box". They have to provide some sort of support. It is seen as a cost center rather than as a face of the company. "number of unfixed issues" isn't relevant if you perceive customer support as perfunctory. As a result, for many companies obsessed with KPIs, the only KPI for customer support is "price".…

Granted in practice, but my point is that engineering should care.

If you've got nice insulation from your customers, how do you even know what you built is working?

I've seen too many bizarre real-world failure cases and complex systems-on-systems to trust that my metrics are capturing everything that breaks.

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, this has been a thing for a while. As a T-Mobile customer, at one point, it eventually took me to put a request via Twitter to get the matter resolved in 20 minutes as opposed to previously spending hours on the phone with tech support ( with no results to show for it ). It is, quite frankly, infuriating; especially for a telecom. edit: I genuinely do not get why it took Twitter referral in my case either ( it…

Last time I had to speak to my telecom operator, which granted has been a while, Twitter was clearly where business took place. Interactions were always pleasant meeting them in the right place. Isn't calling them by phone, as if you're still stuck in the 1950s, like showing up at the back door at a restaurant and wondering why you weren't greeted by the host and seated promptly? Maybe the surly dishwasher will event…

Twitter was clearly where business took place... Isn't calling them by phone, as if you're still stuck in the 1950s

You're using Twitter like you're still stuck in 2008? All the cool kids are on Vazpe32shaau! If you aren't reaching out to customer service on Vazpe32shaau, then you're not worth having as a customer!

Re: Update: Stripe is holding over $400k of mine with no explanation [resolved]

#180

Lots of posts here along the lines of "it's not good when you need to resort to social media shaming to get customer support", but I'll take the contrarian view, or at least explain why this dynamic exists. The past 20 years has seen an explosion in Internet services, but a fundamental (often unspoken) quality of these services is that they must keep individualized customer support costs very low in order to be profi…

> I wish there were a better alternative, but I really am at a loss to think what that could be. Figure out what it costs to have whoever is looking at the HN issues look at them and just charge that much for a executive VIP support request. Like, if I’ve got $400k locked up and CS stuck in a loop I’d happily drop $200 to have someone that actually has the power to talk to people and get the ball rolling on fixing st…

I think the money shouldn't go directly to the company. This incentivizes them to keep their processes terrible.

Publicizing it on HN seems more effective, and provides incentive for the companies to fix their processes, lest they be continually shamed.

The problem is, it doesn't really scale as a method of resolving significant customer issues.

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