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‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

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Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#171

Post by Sirened »

Spooky23 wrote: post #144
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had it personally, but one of my SO's tried a famous "perpetual stew" when in France and we talked about it at one point. Her description kinda matched what I'd expect from braises that I've let go to long: you end up with bland mush. I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish, and it's not because of health codes. We live in an era of insane abundance compared to the medeivil an…

A local restaurant had a minestrone soup that had been running for 10-15 years, until the place burned down. It was ridiculously good. I think the key aspect that made it good was that they served it with every meal so it turned over a lot.

Do you know what they did on holidays? Did they just never close for any reason whatsoever?

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#172

Post by Sirened »

wackget wrote: post #148

The nonsense about how the flavour gets more complex over time is just that: nonsense. There's a video on YouTube where a hobby scientist takes a cup of water and doses it with an incredibly potent poison, a tiny fraction of which could kill. He then discards half the water, dilutes it, and repeats the process about 6 times. Finally he drinks the water and is totally unharmed. The point is that after the pot's been h…

> There's a video on YouTube where a hobby scientist takes a cup of water and doses it with an incredibly potent poison

Cody'sLab Drinking Cyanide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6hOVhQQ9h>. Apparently it was removed because YouTube Trust and Safety didn't believe in dilutions lol

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#173

Post by hnfong »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #88
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had it personally, but one of my SO's tried a famous "perpetual stew" when in France and we talked about it at one point. Her description kinda matched what I'd expect from braises that I've let go to long: you end up with bland mush. I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish, and it's not because of health codes. We live in an era of insane abundance compared to the medeivil an…

> I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish It is in fact quite common in some parts of China, as the OP mentions. But it's just a stock, used in other dishes, not a dish of it's own. > more specifically in the cuisines of Canton and Fujian, where there’s a rich tradition of making lou mei, or master stock, which is used to braise and poach meats. I had read about this before, I recall an…

Yep.

The thing is you don't "drink" the stock (lou mei) because it's too salty. So the solid foods are taken out without much of the liquid, and when you've served all the food in a batch, you're left with ~50% volume of the stock. It's still flavorful, arguably even more so since it absorbed the other food flavors in addition to the original spices etc. So if you're operating a restaurant, you just keep the liquid, replenish it with a bit more spices and condiments, and use it again and again...

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#174

Post by linsomniac »

bobthepanda wrote: post #137
curiousllama wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought of it more as a way to conserve the calories that food represent, rather than a delicious dish in its own right

It can preserve flavor, but it becomes concentrated as the water evaporates away, so i wouldn’t say you should ever grab a bowl of just that. Master stocks are used as a base in Chinese cooking the same way a lot of recipes already start from a stock; but it is rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch and not just use a box from the store in the US. I have a lot of friends that categorically do not c…

>It's rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch

Pity, it's really easy and super delicious.

This past weekend my family was sick so I went to the store and got one of the deli roasted chickens (was in a hurry), pulled off most of the meat, and put it in a stock pot with celery, onions, carrots and some seasonings (S&P, fines herbs, star anise, bay leaves), and filled with water. Simmer for 3 hours, strain.

Amazingly delicious, pretty easy, and the chicken and dumplings I made with it turned out fantastic.

Pretty much any time there's a bone or carcass I'll use it to make something. Had a work lunch last week and I took the ham bone to make ham and beans.

LPT: Cook with bones.

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#175

Post by jrochkind1 »

hnfong wrote: post #173
jrochkind1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there's a reason very few restaurants serve this style of dish It is in fact quite common in some parts of China, as the OP mentions. But it's just a stock, used in other dishes, not a dish of it's own. > more specifically in the cuisines of Canton and Fujian, where there’s a rich tradition of making lou mei, or master stock, which is used to braise and poach meats. I had read about this before, I recall an…

Yep. The thing is you don't "drink" the stock (lou mei) because it's too salty. So the solid foods are taken out without much of the liquid, and when you've served all the food in a batch, you're left with ~50% volume of the stock. It's still flavorful, arguably even more so since it absorbed the other food flavors in addition to the original spices etc. So if you're operating a restaurant, you just keep the liquid,…

Nice, thanks for the context!

I hadn't totally realized you're cooking food in it, removing the food, then re-using the broth! i guess you must have to strain it periodically. That is admittedly a really odd practice to me! It seems like it's origin might be at least in part just to not waste the stock? But people really believe it is important for flavor? (I am not suggesting it's not, how would I know?)

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#176

Post by HarryHirsch »

twelve40 wrote: post #169
ShredKazoo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait so even if rice goes directly from the cooker to the refrigerator, it should be eaten within 24 hours? I break this rule all the time, no diarrhea yet

yeah, weird... i reheat leftover rice all the time, both plain or say pilaf leftovers, and haven't had any problems yet...

Good luck to both of you.

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#177

Post by twelve40 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #176
twelve40 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, weird... i reheat leftover rice all the time, both plain or say pilaf leftovers, and haven't had any problems yet...

Good luck to both of you.

had to actually look that up:

According to FoodSafety.gov FoodKeeper App, leftover rice can be stored in the refrigerator for three to four days

(my foodkeeper said 4-6 days)

and the FDA is typically on the paranoid side of things, like recommending to toss chicken in a couple of hours.

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#178

Post by HarryHirsch »

twelve40 wrote: post #177
HarryHirsch wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck to both of you.

had to actually look that up: According to FoodSafety.gov FoodKeeper App, leftover rice can be stored in the refrigerator for three to four days (my foodkeeper said 4-6 days) and the FDA is typically on the paranoid side of things, like recommending to toss chicken in a couple of hours.

The British NHS is much more conservative, they recommend one day: https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/food-and-diet/can...

Food poisoning from improper handling of rice is sufficiently common to have inspired studies on the risk. Here's one that's thorough from an age when public health still mattered: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2130471/. The meat is on p. 440 - 10^5 - 10^8 colony-forming units is danger territory. Note - it's not the bacteria themselves that cause symptoms, it's an exotoxin that sends people to the bathroom, don't kid yourself into believing you "have immunity" or something.

It's really a mystery why the government is so incautious with the matter, food poisoning in the very young and elderly is life-threatening. If you are young and healthy you'll survive, but for 48 hours it's a beastly experience that you are better off without. My theory is institutional capture by business interests, after CDC shortened COVID isolation guidelines upon the insistence of the airline industry no one should ever believe a word from them ever again. Imagine people went off rice - it's big business in Arkansas!

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#179

Post by notfromhere »

gfaure wrote: post #161
notfromhere wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a romantic notion but if you simmer anything for too long it'll just be generic food water at some point

How does this make any sense? The longer you simmer something, the more concentrated the remaining material becomes.

The flavor breaks down and so does the food.

For example: boil potatoes for too long and more water gets into it. It'll kill the flavor and texture, so that the food tastes watery and the texture becomes soup-ey and wet.

Re: ‘Perpetual broths’ that simmer for decades

#180

Post by Tagbert »

bobthepanda wrote: post #137
curiousllama wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought of it more as a way to conserve the calories that food represent, rather than a delicious dish in its own right

It can preserve flavor, but it becomes concentrated as the water evaporates away, so i wouldn’t say you should ever grab a bowl of just that. Master stocks are used as a base in Chinese cooking the same way a lot of recipes already start from a stock; but it is rarer and rarer for home cooks to make stock from scratch and not just use a box from the store in the US. I have a lot of friends that categorically do not c…

"...concentrated as the water evaporates away"

on a long running stock, you would regularly add water to keep it from drying out.

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