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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#171

Post by spoils19 »

polemic wrote: post #160
urthor wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the root cause is not so much size... and more so younger sibling syndrome. Australia/New Zealand have a... very, very, very deep-seated feeling of inadequacy, comparing themselves to large Anglophile nations. There's a genetic urge to "impress Mother England." For Australia, also a deep seated desire to prove they're not an island of criminals. For New Zealand... a deep seated desire not to be left off maps.…

As we'd say here: "Yeah, Nah". This is a caricature of parochial English thinking of the colonies from the 50s, and is entirely divorced of what Australia and New Zealand are like today.

As someone from a southern US state who faces similar "caricatures", there's no need to pretend and hide your feelings. Instead, I think we should join together against those who would oppress us and keep us down and uninformed in modern society.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#172

Post by kderbyma »

hellisothers wrote: post #122
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wanna smoke yourself to death? Do it at home. Most people want to smoke themselves to death in the open, around other people though. It's nobody's right to pollute our air for the sake of their bad habits, thus regulations.

And pay for all your medical bills out of your own pocket.

everybody dies one day....and most...use hospitals and health care....so the argument is just a waste of time imo - and frankly....the air is connected across the globe...so that argument is kinda weak too ..

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#173

Post by anonu »

chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

> Alcohol has zero benefits for your health

I would disagree. Multiple studies have shown that moderate alcohol consumption lowers HDL cholesterol and reduces strokes. Also, if you use alcohol in a social setting, then you are getting added benefits from human-to-human social interactions where you are likely to have more conversations, talk more, smile more. Obviously those benefits are not directly connected to alcohol - but they pair well together.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#174

Post by janef0421 »

I don't really mind this. I don't believe it's appropriate for the government to prohibit the use of a psychoactive substance, but this law doesn't do that. It just bans a particular delivery mechanism which is known to be particularly harmful. That seems reasonable.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#175

Post by CharlesW »

mmsimanga wrote: post #123
CharlesW wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. It sounds like you're saying that their freedom to inflict harm on you was more important than your freedom from the harmful health effects of secondhand smoke. Can that be true?

I presume the two smokers did more than just smoke. If they were parents They probably also provided food, education, love and whole lot of other things than just secondary smoke. Life tends to be a complex mix of good and bad.

For sure, and I'm assuming the parents were great in every other respect. Assuming the best — that they didn't understand the harm of secondhand smoke — wouldn't a ban have been helpful to them in the same way that a ban on lead paint is helpful?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#176

Post by HKH2 »

urthor wrote: post #148
polemic wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They trust technocratic experts to know what's best for people. And implement. It helps to be small & pragmatic. People (mostly) follow the rules and politicians (mostly) only implement rules with broad support. Police have wide discretion to apply laws and (mostly) do this to benefit public good. That's not to say we don't have problems, of course, but this particular law is seen as a compromise approach to public…

I find the root cause is not so much size... and more so younger sibling syndrome. Australia/New Zealand have a... very, very, very deep-seated feeling of inadequacy, comparing themselves to large Anglophile nations. There's a genetic urge to "impress Mother England." For Australia, also a deep seated desire to prove they're not an island of criminals. For New Zealand... a deep seated desire not to be left off maps.…

I'm Australian and I have never really had any interest in going to England.

Australia is culturally downstream from America though, so you're right about that.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#177

Post by HKH2 »

spoils19 wrote: post #171
polemic wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we'd say here: "Yeah, Nah". This is a caricature of parochial English thinking of the colonies from the 50s, and is entirely divorced of what Australia and New Zealand are like today.

As someone from a southern US state who faces similar "caricatures", there's no need to pretend and hide your feelings. Instead, I think we should join together against those who would oppress us and keep us down and uninformed in modern society.

Time for Australia to become a republic? I wonder how people would vote if there were another referendum.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#178

Post by HKH2 »

jayski wrote: post #129
lost_tourist wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are levels to it though. Smoking is across the board "fucking awful". Whereas a glass of wine a day isn't going to really stress your liver (presupposing no existing issues), whereas a pack of smokes a day absolutely will do damage to your healthy lungs. Also second hand smoke is a big deal.

I don't think this is a fair comparison, on one side it's a whole pack of cigarettes per day and on the other one glass of wine. How about we compare two bottles of wine every day with a whole pack of cigarettes. I think that's comparable and both would be terrible for you. I hate smoking, I had a really hard time quitting 8 years ago and in general I dislike being in a room where people are smoking. However my grand…

> However my grandmother smoked 1 cigarette every day with her morning coffee after breakfast her whole life and it did her no harm whatsoever. I think with most substances moderation is always an important factor.

How many cigarette smokers have the willpower to only smoke one a day?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#179

Post by Ylpertnodi »

anonu wrote: post #173
chrismat wrote: post #84

I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. So on a personal level, nothing would be better than the world collectively giving up the nasty habit. However, I would never, ever advocate or vote for forcing people to do that. Why? Because you could make the exact same case for every single vice. Alcohol has zero benefits for your health - don't even try to give me the "but wine has antioxidants" B…

> Alcohol has zero benefits for your health I would disagree. Multiple studies have shown that moderate alcohol consumption lowers HDL cholesterol and reduces strokes. Also, if you use alcohol in a social setting, then you are getting added benefits from human-to-human social interactions where you are likely to have more conversations, talk more, smile more. Obviously those benefits are not directly connected to alc…

>Multiple studies have shown that moderate alcohol consumption lowers HDL cholesterol and reduces strokes.

Source(s)? And who paid for the studies?

>Also, if you use alcohol in a social setting, then you are getting added benefits from human-to-human social interactions where you are likely to have more conversations, talk more, smile more. Obviously those benefits are not directly connected to alcohol - but they pair well together.

Come take a walk through my home town on a Friday and Saturday night at chucking-out time, there's plenty of "human-to-human social interactions", and with a lot less of the "smiling" part.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#180

Post by HKH2 »

petodo wrote: post #79

As nonsmoker I'm strongly against this, when did alcohol prohibition, war on drugs or their COVID restrictions worked? You will just anger people and it seems completely unnecessary considering there is steady decline in smokers and there are surely more dangerous issues to deal with, in case of NZ it would be pandemic of obesity.

In Australia, you can't advertise cigarettes, and cigarettes have to be sold in faded green packaging (without logos etc.) with only health warnings. You can only get cigarettes if you know which brands to ask for.

That has prevented some people taking up smoking. I think it's fair.

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