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Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

tutanota.com

171–180 of 409 posts

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#171

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

>No; we prefer to thrive by ignoring problems for a long time then smashing them with a hammer.

and here I was thinking that breaking things and disruption is what Facebook in particular was super into. Sucks if it happens to you I guess. Laws and regulations aren't made by meeting Facebook representatives and then asking them what's convenient. Okay Facebook has invested billions of dollars, luckily they've also made billions of dollars. How much do you think traditional journalism, including all the positive externalities it entails has suffered from Facebook? They didn't seem to care, it's a legacy industry if I remember correctly.

Car manufacturers all over the world have invested probably a hundred times as much in the combustion engine and the traditional car, it's going away as well. Like are we going to reimburse and invite everyone who has made anything we've decided we don't want any more?

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#172

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

This is called regulatory uncertainty and there is a long history to it. Its also part of why you want a stable polity that listens to the people it rules, why you want lobbying to be legal (but not bribery), and why you should be careful about building businesses in areas that have regulatory uncertainty.

In terms of society, regulatory uncertainty better than no regulation, hands down, and is a spectrum whether the risk is too high to engage in the market profitably.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#173
post #167

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

People who make laws can't see the future, it's a constant race to curb corporate behavior that is deemed unacceptable and the laws evolve as new loopholes are found and exploited. Corporations know this and take it into account when making a cost/benefit calculation. A while ago Facebook was threatening to pull out of the EU. When nobody cared they ponied up the tech required to stay. They will this time as well.

> People who make laws can't see the future

People who make laws can see the future (yeah, sometimes they don't), it's the people that do not understand them and protest, because they do not see the immediate benefit for themselves, so the laws have to be changed to accomodate the snowflakes of the World.

Making laws is about govern, not about futurism.

A compromise has to be found every time a new law is proposed to be approved.

See for example the ban on ICE engines, one side wanted it NOW the other side wanted it NEVER, truth is a good compromise was to accelerate as much as possible for some heavy user (Amazon alone, for example, is responsible for more than 20% of the global deliveries) and make some exception (5 years tops) for supercar luxury brands like Ferrari or Lamborghini, that sell a few thousands cars/ year.

But things being as they are, people complained about Ferrari asking for an extension (for themselves and other luxury brands) but at the same time against the ban in general because everyone owns a car.

The real problem is that people put in charge of making laws other people like them, not people better than them.

It's a vicious circle.

EDIT: the HN paradox: everyone knows what's bad, everyone has a very important job, but apparently things never improve because "politics".

Maybe things are harder than what they look at first sight, from outside, and it's not about "people not seeing the future", but about the fact that the more a society is rich and established, the more changes are hard and people oppose to them.

See for example how hard it is to convince American people that socialism is not a crime and USA could survive free health care paid by everyone's taxes.

Does it mean that Americans are stupid and can't open Wikipedia and do a simple research, that they can't see the truth in front of their eyes, or that they are simply afraid of change, because the system works for a large part of the population, the same part of the population that basically runs the country and decides who gets elected?

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#174

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

I doubt that works economically.

The money advertisers can pay Facebook is, essentially, a percentage of all consumer spending. A percentage of the money you pay for toilet paper, dish soap, groceries, car insurance, credit cards, etc is funding the advertising budgets of those companies.

The money consumers can pay Facebook is, at most, some portion of their discretionary spending budget. What's left over after buying all that stuff, and paying the rest of their bills (housing, fuel, taxes, etc).

The first number is a much bigger number than the second.

If Facebook is no longer able to capture Charmin's ad spend because they can no longer provide adequate targeting, then Facebook will no longer get that money. The Charmin customers don't have it to send to Facebook directly, they gave it to Charmin to buy their toilet paper.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#175

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

The free market is never wrong ? The stock price is always true value.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#176

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

There's a very strong assumption that Facebook are operating in good faith.

The article suggests you need actice consent, which is what a basic reading of gdpr rules would mean. I don't know why hiding it in the terms and conditions would possible be conpatible.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#177

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

Facebook has many legal experts. They have surely consulted with them, before investing their billions... For them it is more profitable to "not comply and be caught" than to exit the business... Now they got caught and they will fight until the end - because they have many more billions to spend... Any business in any country is making a risk, that laws will change...

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#178

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

> No regulator has had the idea of just going to Facebook, having a real conversation about what they're doing, then talked about it with ethics professionals and researchers and tried to draft a forward-looking law that will make the whole system better?

This would never work because Facebook is uninterested in making "the whole system better". Their entire goal is to make money off of user data, and they have zero incentive to work with governments that threaten that goal.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#179

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

Out of interest where do you see growth coming from for Facebook? How many more people are there to get as users? Their advertising business is being hurt and likely to face further issues. The meta verse is, as yet, going nowhere.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#180

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

It is crazy. If the EU just wants to fully outright ban advertising - then do it - but set a standard and stick to it.
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