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Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

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171–180 of 396 posts

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#171
When post like these come around, it's always someone saying how they resonate and feel isolated or lonely and then someone suggesting how they can get out more, or do dinner parties or host gatherings/play-dates or whatever. Usually, if they're not doing it already, they're probably not the type to know how or feel comfortable (like myself) but would probably attend if the opportunity came around. There seems to be a mix of extroverts here who seem able to pull this off and other types who would do things once someone else took the initiative to make it happen, especially if it was relevant. I'm guessing a lot of people on this site have things in common.

What I'm getting at, is it reminded me of the flyertalk[0] forums. Some Frequent Flyers host these things called DOs/meet-ups[1][2][3] at the hubs they fly into or their base cities. Maybe Hacker News could use something like that. A lot of people seem to like travel, or have disposable income, or could just set it up in their region so it's close to drive. Just seems like a lot of people here already have things in-common, including a lack of being able to meet new friends. Personally, I'm not the type that knows anything about how to host gatherings. But, from the sounds of things, there might be some here who excel at it.

[0] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trending.php

[1] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/communitybuzz/1015875-consol...

[2] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/communitybuzz/2006931-sea-me...

[3] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/2013877-...

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#172
post #164

Not being lonely used to be automatic as society forced you to interact and meet with lots of people just to function. Religion might force you to church where you meet most of the community regularly. It goes far beyond just the purpose of religion. You'll know about every life event of every member, learn about businesses in the community, might meet new friends or even a spouse. The only social institute that come…

Not to mention, the specialization and unbundling of each of these into separate aspects becomes a business opportunity to the point that if enough people decide to pay to play, the orignal free versions lose a critical mass of support and cease to exist. Thus, it becomes less and less possible to participate socially without participating in monetary exchange. This represents a financial barrier to social participation and all of the second-order effects that entails.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#173
post #164

Not being lonely used to be automatic as society forced you to interact and meet with lots of people just to function. Religion might force you to church where you meet most of the community regularly. It goes far beyond just the purpose of religion. You'll know about every life event of every member, learn about businesses in the community, might meet new friends or even a spouse. The only social institute that come…

Church in this context is a third place, the place outside of work and home.

Church is one option

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#174
post #164

Not being lonely used to be automatic as society forced you to interact and meet with lots of people just to function. Religion might force you to church where you meet most of the community regularly. It goes far beyond just the purpose of religion. You'll know about every life event of every member, learn about businesses in the community, might meet new friends or even a spouse. The only social institute that come…

Wrong. My college chemistry textbook had a small aside about an important organic chemist in the 1920s who was responsible for many foundational organic chemistry techniques and theories. I forget his name. The blurb ended with his death — he committed suicide after lamenting that his friends always had female partners on the weekends while he, on the other hand, was always alone. The man died of loneliness in the 1920s. Later editions of the textbook removed the blurb entirely… how stupid and foolish.

If you have an amazing personality then you will want to hang out all the time and have lots of sex and everyone will oblige you because you’re fun to be around. It doesn’t matter what the context is. Yeah, if you’re one member of a 25 person Inuit tribe, you won’t be lonely ever. But just because a bunch of people in the USA are narcissistic idiots who are intolerable to be around doesn’t mean anything about the way the world is going.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#175
post #148

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I think this analysis, and the analysis of the opinion article, jumps to too many conclusions. This article says that the trend has started since 2013. In what way has American individualism changed since then? I would say it hasn't. How could American culture shift that much in less than 10 years in this specific span? I don't buy that explanation without more thorough study. American individualism has existed far l…

"I think this analysis, and the analysis of the opinion article, jumps to too many conclusions."

Definitely, especially because the article seems to avoid the elephant in the room. The US is amidst full on class warfare, the transfer of wealth from the poor and middleclass to the wealthy has been staggering, we never recovered from the 2008 crash, only rich people did.

The rich are grinding us to pieces and honestly I just dont think most of us have the energy to socialize anymore. Wages are less, no one has much money to spend on recreation, everybody is stressed about rent, healthcare, and their bosses being assholes and making them do the job of 3 people.

There are certainly other factors at play here but avoiding talking about this factor just torpedoes any intelligent discussion of ANYTHING related to quality of life in the US.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#176
post #174
post #164

Not being lonely used to be automatic as society forced you to interact and meet with lots of people just to function. Religion might force you to church where you meet most of the community regularly. It goes far beyond just the purpose of religion. You'll know about every life event of every member, learn about businesses in the community, might meet new friends or even a spouse. The only social institute that come…

Wrong. My college chemistry textbook had a small aside about an important organic chemist in the 1920s who was responsible for many foundational organic chemistry techniques and theories. I forget his name. The blurb ended with his death — he committed suicide after lamenting that his friends always had female partners on the weekends while he, on the other hand, was always alone. The man died of loneliness in the 19…

Seems to me he was not alone, as he had friends and spent time with them.

Is this example conflating 'alone' to the seperate issue of him being unable to find a sexual partner?

Also generally I'm sure there will be outlier examples of 'see he was alone in the past' but I feel we have to approach these from a 'generally' view to understand the bigger picture as examples of one may be good for context, but can tend to be used as a confirmation bias of sorts against a bigger picture.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#177
post #170

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

> But you'll do all that against massive societal forces. What forces exactly? > A few decades back you'd join one of the few organizations or clubs that happened in your area, and instantly be in a reliable community (if you adapt a little - let's ignore all the downsides for a moment). I’ve joined two different clubs. One 7 years ago and one this year. Both have resulted in good friends, outings, and even trips to…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a good world view. I imagine you've been through a lot to get to the point where you feel like that. Have you tried finding a friend group that has a mutual hobby to bond over?

it is an accurate world view, in my experience. friends and partners are in no way worth it. I lose every time and the pain is too much. how everyone does it is unknown to me. life isn't just hell, it's torture. noting gained and constant emotional pain.

If you had a higher quality of life you wouldn't feel this way and like friends and partners arent worth it.

You deserve a higher quality of life

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a good world view. I imagine you've been through a lot to get to the point where you feel like that. Have you tried finding a friend group that has a mutual hobby to bond over?

it is an accurate world view, in my experience. friends and partners are in no way worth it. I lose every time and the pain is too much. how everyone does it is unknown to me. life isn't just hell, it's torture. noting gained and constant emotional pain.

the reason it hurts, ironically, is because you haven't grieved/let go of what you wish friends/society were like instead

It's like a partial 'loss of innocence' limbo, puts you in a weird danger zone that is more vulnerable than either polarity

-- actual innocence (i.e. children) rightly elicits strong protection and guidance

-- completed loss of innocence/full acceptance/adult cynicism is being totally okay (and no longer upset or bitter) with the world not owing you anything and there being invisible unfair rules of status games everywhere.

These people are adults climbing the status games they're born into and earning points at their own pace are basically happy and making progress, even modestly or fake/meaninglessly (consumer goods etc)

Getting stuck somewhere between these stages, tho, is painful because every human interaction pokes at an open wound.

(I'm working thru this myself so I empathize)

If you can't stop seeing beyond the game, wishing for a different cards, bitter at the rules being a certain way for your society/geography/time, being contradictory, or changing too quickly etc, you won't be good at the game because your spirit is essentially undercutting you at every play. "Your heart isn't in it" so to speak.

It's how the most sensitive see-thru-the-matrix type children end up when they grow too old for anyone to care, because they just won't let go of how they (idealistically) wanted it to be. A rare amount of these people also have amazing talents, so their insights combine to create art, but the vast majority that can't outgrow it or sublimate it basically just get stuck.

There comes a point where you decide you have to play the best you can with real spirit of society as you find it, so as to win the prizes available.

I remember once I finally handled myself well at a party, was the right amount of cute girl/ charming/ sophisticated/ intriguing/ status signaling stuff to kinda prove to myself I could put the effort in.

And what was discouraging was not that it was 'fake' which was my original juvenile complaint, but rather that the prize for doing really well at a social game is ...being invited to another party to play again next time.

This prize is everything to some people (who can turn each game into endless secondary benefits/opportunity) but pretty disappointing to other types who keep wishing the prize was different, deeper, or magical somehow

They could make themselves play and win if only the prizes were better...

on the other side of the spectrum, it's like how young natural 'politicians' can fully see that socializing is transactional and instead of being upset their thinking attunes to those invisible lines of power like a duck to water: wow the world is one big competition, wow that's so neat, hmm lets see, what do i have to offer and what can you do for me?

there is something to at least seeing with curiosity other people's survival strategies and emotional different reactions to the lay of the land, so to speak. Not to become them, but at least to see the options.

You know how therapy people say acceptance is letting go of the hope for a better past?

in a way, lonely/cynical/bitter people have to let go of their hope for a better game.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#180

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

>Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone This sounds deep and wise in the abstract, but I think it's important that we're talking about is, like, because there are washing machines now, you can show up places looking presentable without there being a woman in your home dedicated to washing your clothes all the time.

Is there a problem with a woman dedicated to washing your laundry at home? Seems like women today have to go to work and do that in the evening anyways.
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