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App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

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Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#171

Post by croes »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #111
croes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use cameras to record all interactions with our cupboards and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the furniture and where extra-guidance is necessary.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Screen tracking is essentially logging which UI elements users interact with and some metadata like the time, their device config, etc. It doesn’t necessarily require capturing video of the user. A better analogy would be hooking up a door open/closed sensor to the cupboard, and capacitive sensors that log the location of touches, so that you can analyse what % of users struggl…

Yes, it's not fair. My phone keeps more privat data than my cupboard and I use and need my far less than my phone.

Tracking invades one of my most used tools, and what's worse I can't see all the tracking that happens.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#173

Post by vorpalhex »

carstenhag wrote: post #93
heavyset_go wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you clearly ask the users if you can do it? If not, there's probably a reason why not, because users wouldn't like it if they found out they were being recorded.

Imo, as long as you clearly say "here's the choice: opt in or opt out, we are doing XYZ" in clear words, it's fair. It doesn't really matter whether on each tap you fire a specific event ("TapOnList", "TapOnPurchase") or whether you log all app interactions (where the user taps, are they going around the app not finding something?). Or does it? Where do you cross the line? If this app would be Facebook I would see yo…

Since we are discussing an app store:

"pregnancy tracker"

"democrat donation app"

"cancer survivors forum"

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#174

Post by coldtea »

amelius wrote: post #143
coldtea wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line is blurry with smartphones, as all kinds of "smart" functionality IS a service, and depends on contacting the vendor. > Also, I recall a case where MacOS was asking Apple permission whenever the user wished to start an executable. This is nuts. Not that nuts. It's intended to be able to blacklist malware and such and retroactively disable it, through notarization (basically, registering apps to Apple and the…

> The line is blurry with smartphones, as all kinds of "smart" functionality IS a service, and depends on contacting the vendor. No, because you can make your phone work with other service providers. The dependence on the original hardware vendor is artificial. > It's intended to be able to blacklist malware Choice of blacklists, content filters etc. is also orthogonal to the vendor.

>No, because you can make your phone work with other service providers. The dependence on the original hardware vendor is artificial.

Yes. But then it wouldn't be a commercial commodity product, it would be more of a build-your-own DIY kit. Would it be as succesful?

>Choice of blacklists, content filters etc. is also orthogonal to the vendor.

Everything is orthogonal to the vendor, even choice of screen or disk.

But most people don't like choice, want something that mostly works as is. And even for those that do the optionally increases the product complexity, maintainance, and error condition space (integrated vs mix-and-match).

Plus, a few modular laptop and mobile phone designs never sold well.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#175

Post by vorpalhex »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #111
croes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use cameras to record all interactions with our cupboards and it's awesome for trouble shooting and also invaluable for our product managers. They can see where users are struggling with the furniture and where extra-guidance is necessary.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Screen tracking is essentially logging which UI elements users interact with and some metadata like the time, their device config, etc. It doesn’t necessarily require capturing video of the user. A better analogy would be hooking up a door open/closed sensor to the cupboard, and capacitive sensors that log the location of touches, so that you can analyse what % of users struggl…

The user scrolled past "cancer patient therapy" and selected "cancer survivors forum". Then they uninstalled that and searched for "colon cancer support"

Still think this isn't invasive?

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#176

Post by 4ggr0 »

StockHuman wrote: post #166
hazz99 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t you just swipe down from the top of the screen and press the Bluetooth icon, or am I missing something?

That does not do what you think it does: that’s the button to disconnect from currently connected devices, not to turn off radios. Similarly, the airplane mode button above it will maintain Bluetooth.

I created a Shortcut for that, essentially a button on my homescreen I can press which actually disables bluetooth and wifi. And when my phone is connected to wifi, mobile data gets disabled.

It's not perfect, but at least I don't have to open the settings app each time.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#177

Post by wasmitnetzen »

alickz wrote: post #148
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A unique identifier which is 100% stable over multiple sessions for once. Which makes the rest of the data so much more useful.

Why is that possible in native apps but not websites?

In the end, this is because the browser works for you, and the app works for the company.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#178

Post by scarface74 »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #177
alickz wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that possible in native apps but not websites?

In the end, this is because the browser works for you, and the app works for the company.

You mean the browser developed by a adTech company, the browser developed by the company who gets $18B a year from an adTech company to be the default search engine or the browser created by a company who only survives because of the adTech company?

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#179

Post by altairprime »

blowski wrote: post #113
altairprime wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument’s logical error is presenting unprovable beliefs as if they were facts. Apple may or may not care if users switch accounts. Only Apple confidential knowledge can prove or disprove this argument with certainty. In the absence of certainty, a best-faith effort must be made to determine whether their actions support or contradict these assertions. The claim “Sure they do” is unsupported both by available e…

Starting every comment with “this argument’s logical error is…” is nauseating and hinders good conversation. Your point would sound better without it.

Everyone’s using my comment about the OP post as a launching point for their own discussions and arguments about Apple, that would have earned their own standing as top-level threads — and ideally, some would have displaced mine. So I certainly didn’t expect to wake up and see my comment earning so much attention. Hooray, I suppose. Anyways, I stand by my original point and the reiteration of it demonstrated in that chain of replies:

Unsupported arguments based on misconstrued statements and logical fallacies waste all our time here at HN. Do better, please.

Re: App Store on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple

#180

Post by rafram »

StockHuman wrote: post #166
hazz99 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t you just swipe down from the top of the screen and press the Bluetooth icon, or am I missing something?

That does not do what you think it does: that’s the button to disconnect from currently connected devices, not to turn off radios. Similarly, the airplane mode button above it will maintain Bluetooth.

Turning Airplane Mode on and then tapping the Bluetooth icon will fully disable Bluetooth (gray background, not white). You can also just disable it in Settings. Apple’s argument, as I understand it, is that Bluetooth and WiFi don’t actually consume much battery, but non-technical users would habitually disable them to save battery and then complain that Location Services didn’t work well. Hiding the setting but keeping an essentially useless toggle prevented those non-technical users from making their device function worse while still letting them feel like they were saving battery life.
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