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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#171

Post by hedora »

Spivak wrote: post #114
moffkalast wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well for what it's worth, Synology makes some ARM powered NASes. But I suppose those fall under the mobile SoC category.

I've always been tempted by them but the price per compute power never got to the point where I wanted to pull the trigger. I don't fault them at all for their design choices, they make complete sense, but I wanted the box to be more compute/memory heavy.

For me, Synology is the remaining niche where Intel is still competitive.

Whoops. Never mind; they have an AMD Ryzen model now: https://www.synology.com/en-us/company/news/article/DS1621_P...

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#172

Post by chasil »

jccalhoun wrote: post #149
throwntoday wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at what Apple is doing today to find out what the industry is doing in a year or two.

Windows has been on ARM since 2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

Windows CE was actually on it long before this.

The original launch of CE was on MIPS and Super-H, but ARM appears to have gained support with Windows CE version 2.2.0.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#173

Post by megous »

faeriechangling wrote: post #65
dihydro wrote: post #35

If the ethernet port doesn't support multigigabit Ethernet, that is a shame. WiFi 6 is great, but we need more development, deployment, and support of multigigabit ethernet for corporate and enterprise customers!

There’s little point to such a feature for the intended use case, which is just to run some VMs to test builds on. At $600 with 32gb of ram multi-gig is asking a little much.

Not it's not, even $150 SBCs like odroid-h3 can have 2x 2.5gbit ethernet ports.

For server usecase this is very unbalanced as far as connectivity goes. Say you want to use the modem or wifi for internet access. Modem gives you 5gbit/s and you'll get out to your network just 1gbit. Wasteful, and it needlessly limits the opportnities.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#175

Post by lostgame »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #122
awill wrote: post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

I'll be curious to see benchmarks but it would be funny if Windows for ARM running in Parallels on an M1 MacBook Air ends up being a better dev machine than an official Windows for ARM dev box produced by Microsoft.

I hadn’t thought of that - but holy shit; I’d put money on that being the case. How embarrassing.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#178

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

ridgered4 wrote: post #123
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'd argue that Microsoft entering the mobile OS market is worse than having a duopoly Would please you elaborate your argument? Personally, I think having more choices would be better. The Apple vs. Google duopoly is limiting for consumers and developers. Would you rather have an expensive device that you barely control or a cheaper device that spies on you? More choices and competition, please.

Not the OP but I've had this thought as well. Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings. From there the consumer space would be weaker and enterprise may start t…

>> Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings.

>> It is unclear to me if modern Windows actually still spies on you any less than Google at this point. My feeling is if still does, it isn't by much.

Microsoft is in a good position to be a strong third contender in the mobile space, but that does not mean that they would be better in all aspects.

>> Ideally, we'd have 3 or more fairly evenly matched and interoperable OS choices on mobile and desktop but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Trapping the monopoly inside it's own castle may be the best we can get.

Yes. That is why I would like to see more choices with hopefully better treatment of consumers and developers. Right now consumers have limited choices and the mobile development experience is agonizingly painful. It seems like an opportunity for disruption, but the entrenched players are dug in deep and probably nearly impossible to dislodge.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#179

Post by GeekyBear »

blinkingled wrote: post #99

Microsoft's Apple envy continues - additionally hobbled by Qualcomm's indistinguished/2nd rate hardware and disinterested developers.

Well, if they had copied Apple, they would have offered a $499 developer test kit that you could use for a year to port your app(s) to ARM and then return for a $200 credit.

Then you wouldn't be stuck paying way more for much less capable hardware.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#180

Post by indymike »

Sakos wrote: post #91
awill wrote: post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

It's a chicken or the egg dilemma. Non-Apple ARM is too slow, so nobody wants Windows ARM, and nobody wants Windows ARM, so nobody is seriously working on consumer-targeted ARM. It will probably fail because Microsoft is generally bad at managing and marketing their hardware projects and coordinating with manufacturers and retail partners. Also, yeah, the pricing and performance is abysmal. But there is some sense to…

> so nobody is seriously working on consumer-targeted ARM.

Consumer targeted arm chips power most phones and tablets. Many of them are more than a handful for i5 and i3 class Intel chips and draw a lot less power. When you are talking about a $599 price point, you aren't talking about top-shelf Intel, anyway.

> But there is some sense to trying to lay the groundwork for future ARM SoCs running Windows

Now that ARM has grown up to be a viable alternative to Intel, this makes a ton of sense.

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