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DevOps is broken

blog.massdriver.cloud

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171–180 of 363 posts

Re: DevOps is broken

#171

Post by willcipriano »

kennend3 wrote: post #156
NikolaNovak wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the only alternative is to start making CPUs by hand Agreed. For some applications the cloud difference is significant; for many (most?) others though, "Cloud" is just rebrand of "Hosted". And even for more cloudy offerings, while I'm in a very specific and different part of IBM, some of the old timers/architects/powers-that-be keep trying to explain "We had that in 1969 !!!" :-D Agreed also at rewriting of history…

> My dad has been IT director and he chuckles when I talk to him about "new and exciting paradigms" which he of course sees as turning a circle to what they had in 70's and 80's :) As someone with 20+ years in IT, I agree - a lot of these "new and exciting paradigms" are not new at all. My personal favourite is how many large multi-nationals are now building in-house clouds? WTF is the difference between an "in-house…

> WTF is the difference between an "in-house cloud" and a shared-use datacenter from the 1990's?

A couple million in salaries and bonuses.

Re: DevOps is broken

#173

Post by lumost »

dijit wrote: post #17

I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…

I don't know, every time I see a title split people start saying that's "X's job", you can't do that because it's "y's job", or I don't want to be involved in "Z".

Fewer titles can avoid these discussions.

Re: DevOps is broken

#174

Post by eropple »

jedberg wrote: post #139
soperj wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SOA is just Spaghetti Architecture. I haven't seen an implementation that convinces me otherwise.

What is your definition of Spaghetti Architecture? Netflix had a good SOA that enabled rapid development and had strong cut lines between services, with no way to access the data of a service without going through the service's API. I think that's where most people go wrong. They put a bunch of services in front of a shared database, which means that they don't have to go through a service's API to get to it's data,…

This is really important, and I've gotten a lot of quizzical looks when making this assertion over the years: data is owned by one and only one service. If two pieces of code assert ownership of it by mutating that data or looking past the public encapsulation of that data, then that code is the same service.

If you see a queue between two services, that is usually an indication that some ownership is being transferred (even briefly), and that is a critical point where you need introspection and observation.

Re: DevOps is broken

#177

Post by kennend3 »

Test0129 wrote: post #14
counttheforks wrote: post #4

> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.

I don't understand. I want to develop code. I don't want to become an AWS/S3/Github/Jenkins/Action/terraform/etc expert. I know enough of this to be dangerous but not at a level that passes as professional. Yet I am regularly tasked with maintaining the full deployment of code. There's a reason to have a team of people doing this "DevOps" work. Just like we have a team of people who do SRE. It creates a standard and…

> Making DevOps/DevSecOps/$BUZZWORD the responsibility of developers is a cost-cutting measure not a responsibility measure.

My background is large multinationals so my view here is a bit bias but i don't think cost cutting is the driver.

Large orgs get large change management processes and procedures. Over time, these change management teams become overwhelming behemoths with minds of their own.

I think "DevOps" was designed as a way to "bypass" the bureaucracy?

"We just use this CI/CD pipeline and no need to sit on a 3 hour change management review call..."

Re: DevOps is broken

#178

Post by bsenftner »

ogogmad wrote: post #145
bsenftner wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is we need to add "software history" to computer science education programs. How many developers whose careers began after 2000 have ever hand written or know the power of a Makefile? I've worked at research labs and major animation studios that back in the 90's the entire infrastructure was fully automated thru Makefiles, and it purred like a well fed cat. There are hundreds of thousands of forgotten perfe…

Very interesting comment. What older software should devs know about? My problem with Make and similar tools is I don't want to learn more ad-hoc syntax to accomplish something nearly trivial. But I don't know if there's any alternative.

Original Make was butt simple: any lines that begin without tabs are a filename followed by list of other file dependencies, files whose modified date must be older than the filename at the start of the list. Than any lines of text immediately beneath that first line starting with a tab character are the shell commands to be executed in order that brings the first file up to date against it's dependencies. That was it, that is the entire original Makefile syntax. Then software vendors started adding extensions...

Re: DevOps is broken

#179

Post by bvrmn »

> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work.

My experience tell that most engineers don't want to do any work and it's ok.

Re: DevOps is broken

#180

Post by Multicomp »

dilyevsky wrote: post #80
makestuff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is like your doctor being the anesthesiologist, the recovery room nurse, and the surgeon all at once.

Race car driver vs bus driver. Race car driver knows how their car functions and works with engineers/mechanics on improvements. Bus driver don’t give a shit (no offense to bus driver). Decide which company you are - a race team or a bus line

I will extend this analogy to say I am a race car mechanic but I'm having to pick up how the driver drives the car in order to make the car perform better, with the eventual goal of being able to drive the car myself (ops -> devops -> dev) so I can do any of the above roles.

Software devs who close their mind to the lower parts of the stack give me the opportunity to learn and do their jobs as well, becoming a more valuable employee as a result.

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