Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#171

Post by bombcar » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

vineyardmike wrote: post #109

UncleOxidant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having kids I didn't realize how insane childcare costs had gotten. Someone posted an article to a local reddit that says people are pre-registering unborn children for childcare because there are so few slots available. Others responses indicated that it's running around $1500 to $2000/month for childcare. Add in housing costs and no wonder people are hesitant to have kids now.

> people are pre-registering unborn children for childcare because there are so few slots available. Shit I have to do this too? I’ve already started saving for the unreasonable cost of college, and the cost of childbirth, and the unreasonable cost of a large (enough) house in my metro. But now this?!

You can - you don't have to.

But there's a reason people pay so much attention to schools when buying houses - a good school district will almost certainly have good daycares, and it can be totally worth moving to get those.

Check if your state's 529 covers daycare or preschool, it can be useful.

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#172

Post by biomcgary » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

underdeserver wrote: post #141

rajin444 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> women have stepped up for their families often to the detriment of their own careers Forcing 2 household incomes was/is awful for a healthy society. Women are the only humans that can produce children and they have to do it during a relatively short time window - especially if we want to reproduce at replacement level. Raising children should be regarded as one of the most important things a woman can do because th…

There's a difference between having children (which only women can do) and raising them (which both parents can do).

Research has consistently shown the value of breastfeeding for development. Part of that is the biological quality of the milk, but part is also the skin-to-skin contact and emotional bonding. So, until weaning, women have a unique biological ability that men cannot quite replicate. Obviously, pumping can address some of the biology and men can cuddle their infants. However, normal emotional attachment[1] of the mother to the child also develops pre-weaning, which has its own long-term effects.

Shouldn't women be allowed to take the first year of their child's life to provide for their long-term emotional development without jeopardizing their careers?

1. in the evolutionary sense of what human psychology has been selected for, including the increase of maternal prolactin and oxytocin during breastfeeding

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#173

Post by nineplay » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

citilife wrote: post #156

poulsbohemian wrote: post #72

It's election season and I've been out talking to voters, who share their life stories... what I would say is that there are many women who are choosing WFH because they either can't afford or can't find day care, which may lead to deciding that hey, they might as well have another baby if they are now committed to this employment model. I've spoken to several women who were over-qualified for the jobs they had taken…

> overlooking the way women have stepped up for their families often to the detriment of their own careers. My favorite question to ask is: "why you want a career?" to pretty much anyone who speaks in this manner. Serious question to people, I don't get it. I love learning, I'm highly qualified in the academic space and enjoy picking at problems. I've written papers, patents, well paid, etc. Highly successful by most…

>"why you want a career?"

Financial independence.

Anyone who thinks SAH parents can free themselves of this worry is naive. You never get the time back, you never get the experience back, you never get the training or the raises or the bonuses. You never get the retirement savings. If you are unfortunate enough to live in the US you are entirely dependent on your spouse for healthcare.

It's an unfathomably vulnerable situation to be in but it gets brushed off. There is still an attitude that SAH is a 'gift' given to a parent, see how often a working spouse will say they 'let' their partner stay at home, that the working partner 'supports' the family. A SAH spouse is not an equal partner with a 50% contribution. More of an oldest child with extra responsibilities and a higher allowance.

Pre-nups are often advocated as a way to ensure fairness if the relationship falls apart. I'd rather see pre-SAH legal documents. The SAH spouse gets half the earnings, gets half the purchases, gets half the retirement savings. A working spouse who isn't willing to sign it is a working spouse who doesn't believe that being home and watching children is a 'real' job.

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#174

Post by bombcar » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:09 PM UTC

throwaway09223 wrote: post #127

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have attended meetings with people who had to remain muted the entire time due to their kid screaming at the top of their lungs constantly. Its not great

Well of course it's not ideal. Employees are people and people come with imperfections. I've worked with employees distracted by kids. Distracted by substance abuse. Distracted by mental illness. Distracted by video games, TV, something on their phone, or even just a basic disinterest in the job. When we talk about the job market as a whole -- such as in the article above -- it doesn't help to focus on a hyper-select…

It's sad that we have to consider children a disability to get companies to realize that parents should be treated with at least as much respect as we would give to someone who falls under the ADA.

Nobody would even think to say "I hate when our meetings get interrupted because Suzy has insert medical condition here and has to go off-camera for a few minutes".

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#175

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #128

WalterBright wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional role of grandparents is to care for the kids while the parents work.

This assumes that your optimal employer exists in the same location as your parents. Unfortunately that is not always the case, at least before WFH.

I didn't assume anything, just stated a historical fact.

It is possible for parents and grandparents to structure their lives around it being convenient for the traditional role. The fact that American society doesn't do this is a bit of a tragedy. I know families that engage the entire extended family, including grandparents, in raising the next generation.

(In fact, its an evolutionary thing. It answers the question of why does evolution keep grandparents around and healthy? Generally, when an organism no longer serves a useful purpose towards propagation of the species, it dies.)

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#176

Post by bombcar » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #62

mym1990 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I took a 1:1 with my manager and he was holding his newborn right there. Its a slightly different world of work now, I was just glad I wasn't in his position.

A newborn that has been fed and slept and lays around is easy, but it is not long before the kid wants to play with keyboard and mouse and headphones and unplug things, etc. I setup my brother MFC printer on the ground so they can mess with the display and open and shut the flatbed scanner and whatnot. The device can apparently take quite a beating.

Kids adore doing whatever their parents are doing, so giving them some "office equipment" can be a great way to get them "working away" for quite some time.

Maybe I should dig up some old IBM PCs, those things were tank-like, but likely the kids would start trying to beat each other with the keyboard.

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#177

Post by 1123581321 » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

maxbond wrote: post #144

rajin444 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> women have stepped up for their families often to the detriment of their own careers Forcing 2 household incomes was/is awful for a healthy society. Women are the only humans that can produce children and they have to do it during a relatively short time window - especially if we want to reproduce at replacement level. Raising children should be regarded as one of the most important things a woman can do because th…

> Raising children should be regarded as one of the most important things a woman can do because they’re the only ones that can do it. This seems pretty reductionist to me. Men can absolutely raise children. Husbands in heterosexual couples should absolutely be raising their children and not leaving the entire task of raising them to their wives. Gay men can also raise children. I don't think you meant to be disrespe…

That last anecdote is a generational change, regardless, I think. I’m probably close to your age, have a family and a traditional income-producer/homemaker marriage, and I bristle at terms like “babysitting” and “watching the kids.” I’m their dad!

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#178

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #161

WalterBright wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She can always start her own business. Don't need anyone's approval for that.

Except in (unnecessarily-) boarded industries and ones with predatory non-competes. Pedantic pique, but both annoy the hell out of me.

Don't sign predatory non-competes. If one is executive material, negotiation is a necessary skill :-)

I was helping a friend buy a car the other day. The salesman kept coming back with a "final" offer and "we can't go lower than that", etc., etc. But I advised my friend to hold the line, and he did till the offer got into his price range.

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#179

Post by poulsbohemian » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #103

poulsbohemian wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if subsidized, if there aren't providers it doesn't actually fix the problem. Here in WA we have the Fair Start act to provide subsidies, but where it gets weird now is... does government step in and also start state-funded care facilities to cover the gap? Or does government create incentives to bring more private care providers into the market? As you point out, there's also a question of whether we've created…

I guess it's a matter of social networking, but I would think essentially any stay-at-home mom could still take in a few kids. It wouldn't even occur to me to check whether that's "allowed".

In some states there are various regulatory hurdles - square footage, insurance, number of caregivers per kid, etc. Not to say that there aren't still under-the-table providers.

Re: Remote work may have fueled a baby boom among U.S. women

#180

Post by nineplay » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

phamilton wrote: post #68

nineplay wrote: post #23

I can understand that it's probably easier to track the numbers of children born to 'women' instead of 'parents', but my observation has been that remote work has resulted in a sea change as to what it means to be a full time working parent. My boss works long hours and now has 2 kids under the age of 4. Pre-Covid he would have been out of the house from about 7-7 and only able to have moments of interaction at the e…

Beyond the hours, the lack of commute has changed so much for me. I can not only take my kids to their 5pm soccer practice, I can coach the team! None of that was possible when I had an hour commute each way.

I'm not coaching but I've taking kids to practice, turned on tethering, and gotten an hour of work done sitting peacefully at the park with no impact on productivity. When I was WIO I had to make deals with the boss - come it at 7 so I could leave at 3, send apologetic emails to my coworkers as to why I wasn't at my desk. It was demeaning - like I should be pathetically grateful to my company for letting my kid have extracurricular activities. What a horror show.