Some neat info on the performance side of things, Fleet is using Skija[1] and Compose[2] as a rendering engine and UI framework. Skija is a java wrapper for Skia and still does not support the full API. Compose is still relatively new and has not had nearly the amount of man hours devoted to it as Swing. This is just a technical preview, I'm sure there will be plenty of optimizations to come. I think it's pretty exci…
JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
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Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure but WebStorm is targeted solely/mainly at JavaScript development. What if my employer has N repos and several other languages, and JavaScript is just one of those. VSCode allows me to stay with the same interface across multiple different repos. Yes, if I’m doing Ruby or Java or C# I might choose a _different_ IDE for certain tasks in that language. But with a few plugins you can get a reasonably good generalist…
It's not. At least as far as I can tell, the different Jetbrains IDEs are more like configurations or flavors of the same underlying thing. You can do most things in most of their IDEs. You should try paying for an IDE. VSCode is great but if you're an engineer getting paid anywhere close to a Silicon Valley wage (or you can expense devtools), you deserve better :)
For highly specialized development teams I guess it makes sense, but for me it'd just be a waste of money.
That's why I use Sublime Text, since it's the only (good) editor that's compatible with anything I need it to do. An alternative like Fleet is very interesting, but it's still too early to make a fair comparison (Also that Adobe-esque "toolbox" app isn't winning it any points)
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#173Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#174I've been browsing their site for a few minutes now and I'm still lost on what Fleet actually is. It says it's a new IDE, built from scratch, sure, but isn't IntelliJ already the gold standard for many languages? What problems does creating an entirely new IDE solve?
So. They start Fleet. Different to their existing products in several ways:
1. Doesn't use the Swing UI toolkit. Uses a custom home-grown thing on top of Skia. Still JVM based though.
2. Runs heavy computation in a backend with a network protocol between that and the UI.
3. Has a VSCode style UI.
4. Uses JSON files for configuration.
Meanwhile they are also attempting to respond to the threat with IJ itself. So they have been prototyping a new VSCode style UI in IJ, implemented with Swing. I'm using it at the moment and I have to say it's actually quite nice. I was super skeptical at first. No, really skeptical. I liked the classic IJ UI, nice and dense, lots of features. But the new UI has won me over. It's been freshened up, is still just as efficient, looks nicer too. I think the success of that project (at least for users who want it) calls into question a big part of the Fleet value prop. Also they've been adding remote development/backend support into IJ itself, a lot of that is being built around their pair programming Code-with-me thing which is a fairly sophisticated data sync protocol under the hood.
So JetBrains is setting themselves up here for some serious product management pain. The IJ team are rising to the challenge and it's not at all clear that VSCode will retain its competitive advantages beyond price within a year or two. Swing is not turning out to be the millstone around their neck they apparently feared, and the new UI feels modern and fast even though it's based on this old toolkit. Meanwhile the VSCode architecture in many ways doesn't make sense and is clearly the result of asking "how can we build an IDE within the constraints of a web browser" and not "how do we build a great IDE"? The client/server architecture is quite painful in all kinds of ways compared to threads+locks, devs tend to have good enough machines for code indexing and comprehension, and IntelliJ index builds can be outsourced to the cloud anyway. If IJ starts to really nail the Gateway stuff (see the recent Google Cloud Workstation announcement), what does it leave Fleet for? And how would they resolve these two competing products?
If I were running JetBrains I'd be tempted to keep resources assigned to Fleet relatively limited and wait to see if it takes off organically, whilst simultaneously closing the gaps in IJ with VSCode. This does not just mean the features listed so far but also means getting serious about their "lightedit mode" and plugin API. JetBrains have a cultural problem in which they historically have actively resisted anything resembling code documentation, thinking that code should be self-documenting. Their plugin API docs are still poor and incomplete even after many years partly as a consequence, and although the JVM can run many languages, JB only really support Java and Kotlin for plugin dev. VSCode has taken off partly for the same reason NodeJS and Electron did - it lets web devs apply their skills in a new context. Language server took off because it lets obscure language communities use their own language to make IDE plugins instead of needing to use Java. Add Graal to IntelliJ, make JS a first-class plugin language and explore how to do non-network based integration with other languages. It would help them a lot.
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#175Some neat info on the performance side of things, Fleet is using Skija[1] and Compose[2] as a rendering engine and UI framework. Skija is a java wrapper for Skia and still does not support the full API. Compose is still relatively new and has not had nearly the amount of man hours devoted to it as Swing. This is just a technical preview, I'm sure there will be plenty of optimizations to come. I think it's pretty exci…
JetBrains Compose UI is using Skiko, not Skija: https://github.com/JetBrains/skiko
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#176I installed this 30 min ago. 1. My M1 temp went from 28c to 60c 2. CPU utilization to 103%? 3. It's using 3.29Gb of RAM And it hasn't changed. With a single python project with 3k lines of code. VSCode sits at 280Mb and CPU temp around 28c. Edit: Vim + SpaceVim sitting at 17Mb :)
While annoying, all intellij EAPs (early access previews) are very cpu intensive, as they run in debug mode by default to create diagnostics and crash reports. Kinda similar like if you would keep the debugger open in your browser. Not sure if you can disable it, but thats the main reason why I stopped using EAPs for work. But the ram is typical intellij, they take what they can get from the OS :)
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#177Just wondering, there's no way to launch Fleet directly without launching it from Toolbox or using CLI?
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#178RubyMine is a great IDE, worth paying for, but this looks like writing on the wall.
Re: JetBrains invites developers to join the Fleet Public Preview Program
#179PHP smart mode definitely needs work. A lot of errors that wouldn't be errors if we could specify which version of PHP the project was running as. Using any PHP7+ feature ends up in an error.
Some silly issues with namespacing as well - like using "string" type-hinting on class functions in a namespaced class shows an error.
And some highlighting oddities with some of our files, but all-in-all I really liked Fleet. Will keep an eye on it!