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Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

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Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#171

Post by munk-a »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #8

A full Apple Car has always seemed unrealistic to me. Cars are a fundamentally different industry then consumer electronics and software. Apple would be starting from scratch, and facing a lot of entrenched competition with huge budgets and infrastructure. And for what? What could Apple do that GM, Toyota, or Tesla couldn't? Maybe a better UX for the dashboard. And while many car UXs are absolutely terrible, improvin…

Personally, I'm waffling. "Gosh this is totally new hardware" could equally well be applied to the iPod launch or a dozen other devices - my personal doubt (that while we'll always have some cars the number of them is going to take a real nose dive sometime in the next two decades) is also kinda disproven by apple. Watches were on death's doorstop except for as weird wealthy status symbols - nobody was chomping at the bit asking Apple to make a watch but they made one and, while it isn't doing extremely well, it's certainly a market presence.

So I feel like they probably could throw enough money at the problem to come up with a solution of some kind but it also just feels like a waste to me.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#172

Post by criddell »

cercatrova wrote: post #128
johannes1234321 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradually standardizing on a way to take all the displays/touchscreens in a vehicle and let them be run by Carplay seems like the future. What is then remaining as distinctive feature of a car vendor? The design? With their custom entertainment system they can confront they driver with their own brand identity an…

Who buys cars for their HUD? I buy cars for their performance, miles per gallon (or electric equivalent), brand value, etc.

Me. Just about any car is fine as far as performance goes. All I really care about are the creature comforts in the cabin and the infotainment system (or whatever they call it now) is a big part of that.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#173

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

WalterBright wrote: post #117

There have been a lot of failed new car company startups. Like the Tucker, the Bricklin, the DeLorean. It's really, really, really hard to create a new car company. The usual problem is way, way underestimating the amount of capital it will take. Tesla is an amazing company because they achieved it. Apple's expertise is in making software and tiny electrical gadgets. How they thought that would translate into experti…

> How they thought that would translate into expertise in making

The "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in." line aged poorly extremely fast.

But you know that, everybody knows that. And Apple has the capital and the Tesla blueprint.

So, why really not? (genuine question, I'd like to pick your brains on that)

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#174

Post by TheCondor »

fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

Making the iPhone more sticky seems like a solid play. Use the phone in place of a key. Keep maintenance records on the phone. Tap a few buttons on the app and give the dealer a virtual key to the car so you can get it serviced. States are already putting IDs in to apps and the wallet. etc.. Maybe use the phone for various road passes and such, that seems like an easy and natural extension.

Around the time the self-driving craze sort of took off, the noise in the echo chamber was that Apple was terribly far behind in 2 main categories: services and AI/ML. Now, they're charging ahead with services and they've got custom ML hardware on every single device they sell. A car seems like too big of a project with too much hype to use as a forcing function for all that stuff.

Seems like there are some strong health and safety plays as well. If you have a watch on, it already can do fall detection. Car crash detection is a logical next step, if all the passengers had watches on, they could start sending real-time telemetry to the paramedics, maybe encourage them to prioritize a passenger that was in greater distress. With the cameras and such, there is absolutely enough processing power in your iPhone to look for drivers falling asleep and with some other data they could probably make a pretty good guess if you're intoxicated.

My concern was that Apple would make a car and it would be a McLaren or something, it would be coveted, look amazing, and be just about completely unattainable. Now if I could buy a Toyota or a Hyundai and just plug my phone in and it became the brain of the car? I'd talk myself in to taking a new car for a test drive to try it.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#175

Post by munk-a »

scarface74 wrote: post #144
treis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's looking at Tesla's 875 billion dollar market cap and saying "I can do that". Which I think they can. They'll sell a ton of cars on brand alone so long as they don't mess it up. It's kind of an interesting dichotomy. You can look at Toyota, GM, Tesla, etc. and say why would Apple be interested in those profits. But then you look at Tesla's market cap and then it's obvious why Apple would want some of that…

Tesla is basically an overrated meme stick by any reasonable valuation. Apple isn’t going to get that type of added market cap based on adding an addition $3 billion in net profit (what Tesla made)

Tesla definitely has some smoke and mirrors going on and is clearly overvalued but I feel like calling them a meme stock at this point is pretty inaccurate. Teslas are on the road doing things and the company is selling them in pretty serious quantities... all against the seemingly iron willed determination of Elon Musk to bankrupt the company by creating a PR nightmare and wasting money.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#176

Post by criddell »

nradov wrote: post #152
fdye wrote: post #26

So I've always wondered if Apple actually building a 'car' was ever really the goal. It seems like a skunkworks where they try crazy things and then incorporate into Carplay. Future seems to be ever expanding Carplay support. I use it and probably would not buy another car that did not have it integrated. I imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradual…

Almost every new car sold in the developed world has a display in the dashboard, but very few actually have a Heads-Up Display (HUD) projected in the driver's line of sight. It's mostly just premium models from GM and BMW that come with this feature. It's a shame that more cars don't have a HUD as it really does help to reduce driver distractions.

Volvo has a HUD projected on the windshield.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#177

Post by lowercased »

waboremo wrote: post #37
ARandumGuy wrote: post #8

A full Apple Car has always seemed unrealistic to me. Cars are a fundamentally different industry then consumer electronics and software. Apple would be starting from scratch, and facing a lot of entrenched competition with huge budgets and infrastructure. And for what? What could Apple do that GM, Toyota, or Tesla couldn't? Maybe a better UX for the dashboard. And while many car UXs are absolutely terrible, improvin…

As if Apple is just a tiny little startup looking for VC funds to get into the automotive industry and couldn't possibly compete with Ford. >And for what? Control over the entire driving experience. Just like they are obsessed with controlling the experience of a phone or a tablet and refuse to relegate aspects to partners. >improving them isn't some insurmountable challenge for existing manufacturers You say this bu…

> As if Apple is just a tiny little startup looking for VC funds to get into the automotive industry and couldn't possibly compete with Ford.

Ford's market cap is $47b. Apple has more than that free cash on hand. I suspect Apple would 'partner with', then eventually just subsume, an existing card company, if they really wanted to get in to this. You're buying a lot of existing infrastructure (dealers, parts, distribution, warehouses, etc) that would take a long time to replicate.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#178

Post by morcheeba »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #8

A full Apple Car has always seemed unrealistic to me. Cars are a fundamentally different industry then consumer electronics and software. Apple would be starting from scratch, and facing a lot of entrenched competition with huge budgets and infrastructure. And for what? What could Apple do that GM, Toyota, or Tesla couldn't? Maybe a better UX for the dashboard. And while many car UXs are absolutely terrible, improvin…

It's funny how those are the same arguments people made when a company that built PCs started making phones. How could they compete with Verizon?! They were thinking evolutionary, but the iPhone had so many fundamental changes (technological, business, social) that upended an industry and made new ones. I'm not saying the car is a good idea, but Apple has overcome entrenched competition before with very capable competitors.

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#179

Post by scarface74 »

munk-a wrote: post #175
scarface74 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is basically an overrated meme stick by any reasonable valuation. Apple isn’t going to get that type of added market cap based on adding an addition $3 billion in net profit (what Tesla made)

Tesla definitely has some smoke and mirrors going on and is clearly overvalued but I feel like calling them a meme stock at this point is pretty inaccurate. Teslas are on the road doing things and the company is selling them in pretty serious quantities... all against the seemingly iron willed determination of Elon Musk to bankrupt the company by creating a PR nightmare and wasting money.

Compare their sales and profits to other car makers. They are grossly overvalued

Re: Apple Car: Bad Idea After All

#180

Post by crooked-v »

cercatrova wrote: post #128
johannes1234321 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine car manufacturers are somewhat tired of always building HUDs and in vehicle control systems. So gradually standardizing on a way to take all the displays/touchscreens in a vehicle and let them be run by Carplay seems like the future. What is then remaining as distinctive feature of a car vendor? The design? With their custom entertainment system they can confront they driver with their own brand identity an…

Who buys cars for their HUD? I buy cars for their performance, miles per gallon (or electric equivalent), brand value, etc.

Well, I'd say there's a difference between HUD and infotainment. I might be influenced in a car decision by the actual HUD and its useful features (for example: the blind spot cameras on some new cars), but the infotainment screen between the driver and passenger is almost always just an annoying barrier between me and having the music/podcasts/whatever + maps from my phone playing in the car.
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