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Get in zoomer, we're saving React

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Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#171
I've been doing front end since the late 90s and I disagree with many points here.

One thing I do agree is the rant at the end about zoomers. We see stuff like tailwind popping up which really reflects the zoomer ethos of not wanting to learn fundamental stuff like CSS. "It's so easy to get started! Why would I learn anything else?"

I think gen Xers and late boomers will be the most tech developped generations because we had to use computers that were hard to use.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The orange site” is some weird euphemism twitter users use when complaining about HN. It’s also a great search term to chuck in to twitter for some entertainment.

It seems to always be said with disdain. Is there a reason these people don't want to use the name? Do they really dislike the color orange?

It's the same cultural phenomena as using euphemism to call out devils lurking below your bed. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#173
post #77

The author of this article also wrote the for me mind blowing things like MathBox2 [0], the Pixel Factory [1] and many more. The often mentioned clone of React in the article, described in "The GPU Banana Stand" [2] is something that wasn't heavily discussed here as I think the concepts are just very advanced. I mention this as I believe this is what the author is concerned about and what some might haven't experienc…

> the oldest Zoomer is 25 at the moment.

Yeah, give us millennials a shot! The oldest of us are just 42!

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things used to require much more competency. For instance, I've been looking at old Byte Magazine issues on archive.org Let's take November 1982. Here's an article on building a video digitizer ( https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n175/... ) complete with circuit diagrams, signal examples, and a control program in 6502 assembly. Hobbyist magazine. For enthusiasts. If I had a candidate that did thi…

Today would you look for someone who grew up doing Rasberry Pi builds? I haunted Radio Shack back in the day, but would have loved to grow up doing single board computer stuff.

Raspberry Pi hobbyists are great in the IoT world. Almost an immediate hire if you can demonstrate an image recognition app.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#175
post #159

Can any Web Dev framework survive long enough to be stable? If I learn some fancy framework today, I expect to use it for years to come else my knowledge and time is wasted.

No, it won't. Web is an ever changing platform, with a lot of churn. The most long lived framework currently is emberjs. But it is not the hottest, so you won't find it discussed much. The most "future proof" framework is "React" which is the one mentioned in Original article. It goes without saying but React is the cause of a lot of churn in js ecosystem, particularly due to its "no-battery included" approach. ## wh…

> that angular 2 should have been renamed.

Didn't it? I recall it was called AngularJS when it was v1.

(Yes, I'm purposefully nitpicky here, you're still right a completely new name could have been helpful here)

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought windows had bad UX until I tried macOS. Maybe my taste is different than others but I found macOS UX to be really confusing. I particularly disliked the iconset. Interestingly this is not true for iOS and iPadOS, those are magnificent.

Did you ever try macOS (OS X) circa 2006–2014? It was really, really good and then they ruined it for the sake of having a (kind of) unified design language with iOS. I'm typing this on OS X 10.9 Mavericks.

Old Mac OS X was great. I hated the mouse and the iMacs were a little too 'cute' for a work tool, but wow they could run the doors off a Math Blaster CD.

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things used to require much more competency. For instance, I've been looking at old Byte Magazine issues on archive.org Let's take November 1982. Here's an article on building a video digitizer ( https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-11/page/n175/... ) complete with circuit diagrams, signal examples, and a control program in 6502 assembly. Hobbyist magazine. For enthusiasts. If I had a candidate that did thi…

Was about to upvote then you said 6502 asm isn't useful in 2022... If anything, learning 6502 asm is instructive because it isn't very abstract but forces you to turn abstract thinking to explicit instructions.

Any assembly language gets you the same thing, and 6502 assembly is likely not the one your current machine understands natively.

(if it is, I would like to read your blog)

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has admittedly worked on approximately 0 user-facing programs, it seems like there are not many revolutionary ideas when it comes UI. I have some dream of a sort of user-interface system that exposes controls and data more directly to the user, independent of the author's stylistic choices. Sort of like semantic HTML with style-sheets that are configured on a per-user basis. It would be analogous to th…

That was the vision of OpenDoc, and the component based CyberDog web browser that Apple built with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc >OpenDoc is a defunct multi-platform software componentry framework standard created by Apple in the 1990s for compound documents, intended as an alternative to Microsoft's proprietary Object Linking and Embedding (OLE).[1] It is one of Apple's earliest experiments with open sta…

Check out the stylish 8 bit error diffusion dithered gradients and cheesy 90's drum loop in this delightfully retro but content-free "Apple OpenDoc Technology Intro" -- the take-away point is that Apple and IBM and Oracle were really pushing OpenDoc and making a lot of promises about supporting it for a while:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFJdjk2rq4E

>Video clip from the original Apple OpenDoc: A Crucial breakthrough! CD

This one has a much funkier intro, and has more substantial down-to-earth information about OpenDoc. He's got HyperCard and AppleScript in their original boxes on the shelf behind him, so he knows what he's talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FSFvEIpm5o

>OpenDoc: A New Standard for Compound Documents, a lecture by Kurt Piersol. The video was recorded in March 1994.

>From University Video Communications' catalog:

>"OpenDoc represents a new standard method of building editors which support assembly and editing of compound documents on many computing platforms. Kurt Piersol discusses the need for compound document systems, their requirements, and OpenDoc's industrial and technical approach."

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#179
post #171

I've been doing front end since the late 90s and I disagree with many points here. One thing I do agree is the rant at the end about zoomers. We see stuff like tailwind popping up which really reflects the zoomer ethos of not wanting to learn fundamental stuff like CSS. "It's so easy to get started! Why would I learn anything else?" I think gen Xers and late boomers will be the most tech developped generations becaus…

On the contrary, Tailwind necessitates learning CSS. I don't see how someone can write "flex flex-col gap-2 mx-2 px-4 py-2 text-gray-600" without understanding flex, margins, paddings, and seeing how children inherit certain properties. Tailwind doesn't replace CSS; it just moves properties out of a stylesheet and into a component template. That said, if someone is trying to learn Tailwind before learning CSS they're going to have a hard time (I doubt they will succeed at all).

Re: Get in zoomer, we're saving React

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say macOS actually is a lot more polished than Windows, but I agree with you that it is damn confusing. Try "closing" an app for example and you'll find that half the time it will not have closed properly, or maybe it did, who knows? It depends on the app. If it's vanilla you can bet it will have to be closed with CMD+Q

I think the convention is for apps where you can open multiple instances of it (document editors, web browsers, etc), closing window won't quit the app.

Exactly. In the scenario of closing all open documents and then creating a new one, it prevents the awkwardness of having to keep that last document open to keep the menubar available so you can select File > New and then close the last document. It also means you don’t have to invoke your app launcher again after closing all documents since the app is still open.

Conventions being different than what one is used to (in this case, Win9X) isn’t necessarily bad. Additionally, this particular convention has been on macOS for most of its existence, which means there’s longtime Mac users who find the Win9X way just as awkward.

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