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We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

erikmcclure.com

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Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#171

Post by stjohnswarts »

cyanydeez wrote: post #96
dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

In reality, there is no reason GPUs should be add-ons. Just star designing motherboards with integrated GPUs of sufficient size. Case closed.

not that simple. lots of people upgrade their card once or twice before they get a new motherboard/cpu combo.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#172

Post by [deleted] »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36

How about we move to external only GPUs with huge connectors? If GPUs are half the size, power consumption and price of a PC now, they might as well be a separate device. As a bonus the rest of the motherboard & PCs actually get much smaller. A PC without any spinning disks could conceivably just be the size of a NUC by default, something you can travel with when you don't need the beefy GPU.

[deleted]

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#173

Post by nextaccountic »

greggsy wrote: post #166
Lramseyer wrote: post #89

> Should we have GPU VRAM slots alongside CPU RAM slots? Is that even possible? I chuckled a little at this because I used to wonder the same thing until I had to actually bring up a GDDR6 interface. Basically the reason GDDR6 is able to run so much faster is because we assume that everything is soldered down, and not socketed/slotted. Back when I worked for a GPU company, I occasionally had conversations with co-wor…

The NUC Extreme line is basically that, which IMO is a really good form factor. Memory and nvme storage are dense enough to make anything larger obsolete for the practical needs of most users. Emphasis on ‘practical’, not strictly ‘affordable’. The only advantages of larger form factors are the ability to add cheaper storage, additional PCI-e cards, and aftermarket cosmetic changes such as lighting. IMO, each of thes…

> The NUC Extreme line is basically that, which IMO is a really good form factor.

Is there a case like this, but that is not part of a prebuild computer?

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#174

Post by techdragon »

wmf wrote: post #162
techdragon wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

checks features of motherboard ... additional connectors, yep... PCIe backplane, yep... Having bought both... it is definitely costs they don't want to pay, but not the cost of those features . It's more like industrial grade PSUs and redundancy that get mandated by various specifications and end up reducing the market size which further racks up costs.

PCs could have their own backplane standard that's higher-volume and doesn't require industrial-grade anything, but it would still be too expensive. They sweat every yuan.

My point was that the economics of higher-volume manufacturing result in eventually subtracting everything to the point that the "backplane" is the motherboard.

Early ISA backplanes were passive and you basically just had a PC on an ISA card plugged into the ISA bus, with maybe some extra connectors for power and peripherals. Then PCI backplanes started out this way but quickly gathered enhancements that resulted in the "System Host Board" interface and a special connector for more power and IO to/from the "CPU card" in order to do things like support ISA, PCI, peripherals, and later PCI-X slots. Rather than having the extra complexity of the connectors, the high volume PC market folded all of this "onto the backplane" creating the modern motherboard. It might not be clear unless you know a bit about early computer backplanes like S-50/S-100, STD bus, STEbus, VME bus and the equivalent Passive ISA backplanes... by the 90s this is well underway and we already have motherboards that you could recognise as "a motherboard" and "backplanes" that are noticeably different, having evolutionarily diverged during the 80s under differing economic pressures.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#175

Post by mariuolo »

greggsy wrote: post #166
Lramseyer wrote: post #89

> Should we have GPU VRAM slots alongside CPU RAM slots? Is that even possible? I chuckled a little at this because I used to wonder the same thing until I had to actually bring up a GDDR6 interface. Basically the reason GDDR6 is able to run so much faster is because we assume that everything is soldered down, and not socketed/slotted. Back when I worked for a GPU company, I occasionally had conversations with co-wor…

The NUC Extreme line is basically that, which IMO is a really good form factor. Memory and nvme storage are dense enough to make anything larger obsolete for the practical needs of most users. Emphasis on ‘practical’, not strictly ‘affordable’. The only advantages of larger form factors are the ability to add cheaper storage, additional PCI-e cards, and aftermarket cosmetic changes such as lighting. IMO, each of thes…

> The NUC Extreme line is basically that, which IMO is a really good form factor.

Missed that one. I still mourn BTX.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#176

Post by stjohnswarts »

winkeltripel wrote: post #23

Could we just follow the atx spec? There is a maximum length for expansion cards, and at that end there are optional supports. These are in servers already. Just start using all that case volume to support the GPU.

there are $10 brackets that solve all this for most people, not sure why there is an HN panic to suddenly rearchitect the whole PC gaming platform.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#177

Post by midoridensha »

MBCook wrote: post #87
gh02t wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There sorta is a cap in place given that most residential circuits in the US are 15 or 20 amps. We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds. Edit: ok maybe crazy builds but still it's not that far fetched on current trajectories.

So 15 A x 120 V is 1800 W. The problem is even in a dedicated circuit you can’t use that continuously, it’s considered dangerous. For continuous draw you’re limited to 80% of the line’s rating (in the US). People who have looked into EV charging have certainly run into this fact. So the computer (and sound/monitor/etc) have to stay under ~1400 watts if it’s on a dedicated circuit. 1/3rd of that for just the GPU I’d p…

Don't forget the PSU isn't perfectly efficient; it's usually between 80 and 90 percent. So for safety, about 1100W (for the total of the DC power draws of the components fed by the PSU) is really the maximum for continuous draw, and as you pointed out, there's also monitors, sound, etc. A typical monitor now is probably 50W or so (which is actually really good compared to the CRT behemoths of yesteryear).

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#178

Post by Nition »

winkeltripel wrote: post #23

Could we just follow the atx spec? There is a maximum length for expansion cards, and at that end there are optional supports. These are in servers already. Just start using all that case volume to support the GPU.

Is that the same as the one shown in the article's spec diagram, or something different again?

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#179

Post by stormbrew »

The thing I don't get is why are we so damn stuck on towers as the default form factor? It's pretty much masochism to mount a sensitive piece of 8 billon layer circuit board vertically and then hang a bunch of blocks of solid heat conducting metal to it from the side, held on only by a soldered on piece of plastic.

Bring back proper desktop cases!

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#180

Post by sgtnoodle »

hinkley wrote: post #153
Lramseyer wrote: post #89

> Should we have GPU VRAM slots alongside CPU RAM slots? Is that even possible? I chuckled a little at this because I used to wonder the same thing until I had to actually bring up a GDDR6 interface. Basically the reason GDDR6 is able to run so much faster is because we assume that everything is soldered down, and not socketed/slotted. Back when I worked for a GPU company, I occasionally had conversations with co-wor…

What if GPU makers made motherboards?

I vaguely recall Nvidia motherboards were junk in the late 2000's.
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