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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#171

Post by moffkalast »

legitster wrote: post #15

So... What's the end result? Google has to charge for Android? Ask users their search preference?

Android should damn well ship with multiple app stores and multiple browsers, not just the GoogleApprovedTM app store where they ban anyone that looks at them wrong or thinks about blocking ads for more than 2 miliseconds.

The exclusive app stores are both iOS and Android's greatest strengths and failings at the same time. Apple is arguably the far worse offender there too. If there was an alternative app store on iOS everyone would jump ship immediately.

Imagine having crossplatform Steam/GoG Mobile stores for mobile games, etc.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#172

Post by einpoklum »

cyphar wrote: post #86
robertlagrant wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that giving the power to overseas nations to criminalise and incarcerate US citizens has no downsides.

Believe it or not, committing a crime in a foreign country as a US citizen will result in you being incarcerated in said country regardless of your citizenship status.

Most crimes committed by US citizens in foreign countries are in the context of their military service: War crimes. And instead of being incarcerated for those, they just complete their tour of duty and go home. With any luck there's some public outcry about their crimes, but often not even that. The US is also not party to the Rome statute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute), and has even threatened to personally target International Criminal Court employees if they try to prosecute US citizens.

... but I suppose you're right about more mundane, non-government-sanctioned crimes.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#173

Post by makeitdouble »

endisneigh wrote: post #119

It’s not clear to me what the EU, specifically, wants Google to do here from the article. Any insight?

The original ruling:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17580694/google-android-e...

Basically dirty stuff we all knew Google was doing, but kept getting away with until then

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#174

Post by scarface74 »

Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

The EU insisting on all phones standardizing on the USB connector is evidence of just the opposite and shows the cluelessness and shortsightness of the EU.

You will still have phones that come with “standard USB C” cables where some support different power delivery, data speeds (or not support data transfer at all), very few will support video over USB C (which is standardized), etc.

So still when the Android user with the cheap power only USB C cord moves over to the hypothetical iPhone 15 with USB C, they will still have to throw away their USB C cable that potentially doesn’t support high speed data or video over USB C. Both supported by todays iPads with USB C.

If the same mandate had gone through when it was first proposed, we would have been stuck with micro USB.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#175

Post by layer8 »

endisneigh wrote: post #155
layer8 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, not require that Chrome be preinstalled as the default browser on Android devices, and not require that a bundle of Google apps be preinstalled if any of them is preinstalled.

Is this not already possible with things like LineageOS?

It’s for example not possible for Android device manufacturers to ship a phone with Google PlayStore installed but not also have Chrome be preinstalled as the default browser.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#176

Post by endisneigh »

dahfizz wrote: post #165
endisneigh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not already possible with things like LineageOS?

Its an issue with bundling. If a phone manufacturer wants to ship an Android phone with Google Play Store (and they all do), then they must also include a bunch of other Google stuff. The EU wants Google to license the Play Store but not force the inclusion of all their other apps. So yes, a manufacturer could ship a phone with a de-Googled LineageOS. But they cannot today ship a phone with Play Store, but without Ch…

Interesting - thanks for the info.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#177

Post by fatboy »

namdnay wrote: post #142
fatboy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bit trickier. If Makita or whoever was forced to change their batteries, anyone with a big catalogue of their tools would be pretty miffed. Also, I've mentioned this on hn before, there is already the Cordless Alliance, which does exactly this. Sadly, there's only a couple of useful-in-a-mainstream-sense brands in there: Mafell and Metabo. The rest are very niche.

I would be wary of this "cordless alliance", the dynamics are closer to that of a kingdom than an alliance... it's basically lots of small(er) german tool manufacturers using Metabo batteries instead of developing their own. Which is great, but not really the same thing as an alliance of equals agreeing to align existing systems

That's not really so surprising though. Any brand that already has a system would be penalising existing customers by changing, we're not talking usb cables here.

Good on Metabo for doing it, and good on Mafell for signing up to use them. The smaller brands it's a no-brainer I guess.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#178

Post by 6510 »

fatboy wrote: post #106
Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

I think that's a bit trickier. If Makita or whoever was forced to change their batteries, anyone with a big catalogue of their tools would be pretty miffed. Also, I've mentioned this on hn before, there is already the Cordless Alliance, which does exactly this. Sadly, there's only a couple of useful-in-a-mainstream-sense brands in there: Mafell and Metabo. The rest are very niche.

I just sold some tools for 5 euro each. They need new batteries but company is gone. Makita can just continue to sell their old batteries while their new tools use a standardized form factor. They could also make an old type battery with replaceable cells.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#179

Post by izacus »

moffkalast wrote: post #171
legitster wrote: post #15

So... What's the end result? Google has to charge for Android? Ask users their search preference?

Android should damn well ship with multiple app stores and multiple browsers, not just the GoogleApprovedTM app store where they ban anyone that looks at them wrong or thinks about blocking ads for more than 2 miliseconds. The exclusive app stores are both iOS and Android's greatest strengths and failings at the same time. Apple is arguably the far worse offender there too. If there was an alternative app store on iO…

The way this EU ruling is setup, they want your Android not only ship with other stores, but allow sales with exclusively those stores as well.

Just like the case with Chinese phones now - I have bunch of people in my family angry because they bought Huawei and they now can't use their banking apps because it's an incompatible build of Android that requires publishing in a Huawei AppStore to work.

That's worse. That's strictly worse for everyone, even the OEMs will lose their market to Apple by driving their ecosystem into the ground... again. Samsungs, Nokias, ASUS, etc. did this tragedy of the commons failure repeatedly and reliably.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#180

Post by perlgeek »

robomartin wrote: post #164

Does the money in these cases go to government? Not sure how it is in the EU. This is one of the aspects of government-based fines I dislike. The money should go to the people, the victims, not government. They go after a company that may have damaged consumers and then proceed to grab the fine instead of giving it to the people who were the actual victims of the transgression.

It's simply not practical to determine with certainty who owned an Android phone during the time that Google violated the antitrust laws, and divide the payout among them.
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