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President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

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Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#171

Post by throwaw32823 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #94
willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

Russia was already always going to lose that "superpower" tag the moment the world shifted from hard industrial goods to consumer goods and technology. The first computer, the growth of the Japanese consumer goods industry, and Silicon Valley likely did as much to collapse the Soviet Union as anything else - they were simply out of the picture the moment we started creating software and portable stereos and personal…

What the difference b/w industrial goods and consumer goods. Both are physical items

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#172

Post by spywaregorilla »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #15
scanny wrote: post #5

It’s hard to see where this ends; should things move toward weakening of the Russian government will he go without attempting to escalate his way out of domestic danger? I think mobilisation and moving toward declaring the special operation a war (more mobilisation) could be the beginnings of that slippery slope.

Putin is "committed" so to speak, so this is just following his current strategy through to its conclusion: force the West to give up on Ukraine or accept massive escalation. The fundamental question is - is NATO committed enough to the Ukraine cause to demolish Europe? Probably not. Everyone talking about Russia being "already defeated" knows little of the Russian capacity for misery. Napoleon learned the hard way.…

> Everyone talking about Russia being "already defeated" knows little of the Russian capacity for misery.

This gets trotted out every time but it's a really stupid argument. Russians may have been willing to endure extremely poor conditions to defend their homeland. They're not going to do the same to invade ukraine. And no, people are not going to suddenly believe that Ukraine is their homeland because Putin has claimed it so. This is an offensive operation. If Russia declines to extreme poverty, it will simply be unable to maintain effective logistics to the front. Which is really hard to do when the enemy has accurate long range missiles and all you have is trains.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#173

Post by tromp »

mrtksn wrote: post #163
willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals. In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA…

> It's bezire.

Is that just a bezire spelling of bizarre?

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#174

Post by bigodbiel »

tazjin wrote: post #98
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia was already always going to lose that "superpower" tag the moment the world shifted from hard industrial goods to consumer goods and technology. The first computer, the growth of the Japanese consumer goods industry, and Silicon Valley likely did as much to collapse the Soviet Union as anything else - they were simply out of the picture the moment we started creating software and portable stereos and personal…

Yeah, it's great how Javascript simply replaced industrial processes and our society no longer needs natural resources - only more stars on Github.

African continent is rich in natural resources, meanwhile Taiwan is just a volcanic island that produces 90% of the world's CPUs. The same applies to Russia.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#175

Post by [deleted] »

tromp wrote: post #173
mrtksn wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals. In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA…

> It's bezire. Is that just a bezire spelling of bizarre?

[deleted]

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#176

Post by ramblerman »

nindalf wrote: post #26

Putin's approval rating since the war began has been a steady 80%+ ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra... ). We don't know yet what September's numbers will look like, but it will likely take a hit from the retreats and losses of territory to the Ukrainians this month. Mobilization is going to drop that further. People are ok supporting a war in the abstract, but less so if they have to go…

How can you take these polls seriously?

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#177

Post by [deleted] »

tromp wrote: post #173
mrtksn wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals. In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA…

> It's bezire. Is that just a bezire spelling of bizarre?

[deleted]

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#178

Post by vegardx »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #111

All flights out of Russia are now booked out with millions of people trying to escape mobilisation. If the Western leaders had any foresight, they would come up with a scheme that enables them to do so and drains Putin's manpower. Anything from rebuilding Ukraine to getting them a free ticket to Brazil. Unfortunately, as demonstrated by dependancy on Russian gas, western leaders have the foresight of a frog. The rece…

The people that could realistically move from Russia already have. Just because all flights are fully booked doens't mean millions are willing to or able to move.

And what gas? Currently Russia is exporting a negligible amount of gas to western countries. They played that card a long time ago.

It's almost comical to talk about foresight and Russia in the same sentence without even acknowledging how blind Putin has had to have been to even have considered starting this mess.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#179

Post by sofixa »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #151
TillE wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "exit ramp" is that they withdraw from Ukraine, or at the very very least they withdraw to the lines that existed before 2022. I'm really not sure what else people who say this mean.

What I mean is that we need to use diplomacy to allow Russia a way to enter negotiations and stop the war while keeping a modicum of face. There is absolutely no chance Russia just leaves Ukraine on their own while saying "we have lost, we were bad and will now behave as you wish" so there would be little point insisting on that. If what we want is a come back to pre-invasion frontiers we need to give them a way to s…

Russia has plenty of nukes for the US and Europe if Putin decides the murder-suicide path is the only way forward.

The problem with your line of thinking is that Russia needs to lose. It's citizens need to understand that it has lost. Germany after WWI didn't and it gave rise to the stab in the back myth and nationalism. If Russia is allowed to spin anything as a victory here, it and it's citizens would learn nothing and it will just be a truce. Not to mention how extremely unfair would be to deny Ukraine it's integrity to placate Russia, a violent genocidal invader.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#180

Post by honkdaddy »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #94
willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

Russia was already always going to lose that "superpower" tag the moment the world shifted from hard industrial goods to consumer goods and technology. The first computer, the growth of the Japanese consumer goods industry, and Silicon Valley likely did as much to collapse the Soviet Union as anything else - they were simply out of the picture the moment we started creating software and portable stereos and personal…

Russia has a long history of producing excellent programmers and software engineers, I'm not sure where you get the idea this is where they were outpaced by the rest of the world.

If I had to attribute one thing to Russia's downfall, it would be its geopolitical decision to align itself with China and Iran in global anti-Western sentiment, rather than moving towards joining the rest of the West and the EU as some countries hoped they would back in the 90s.

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