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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#171

Post by maverickJ »

“Focus is doubly important for early stage startups, because not only do they have a hundred different problems, they don't have anyone to work on them except the founders. If the founders focus on things that don't matter, there's no one focusing on the things that do.”

Paul hits the nail on the head with this.

I like to think of this as the idea of everything is not for you. It’s very important to know what the goal is and ignore every other thing that does not align with it.

The article below helps provide a framework of focus and the idea that everything is not for you.

https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/everything-is-not-fo...

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#172

Post by bluGill »

vl wrote: post #156
ejb999 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather go get a cavity filled, then buy a new car. Do it as infrequently as possible (hoping to get another 10 years out of my 11 year old Toyota). Every time I visit a new car dealer I feel a need to take a shower, just to get the stink off of me.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

Unless you have a trade in as this is one area where they can still get you.

Do those fixed price dealers count their various add-ons (rust proofing, extended warranty...) in the fixed price or not. These add-ons are how most dealers make money (that and warranty work)

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#173

Post by dangrossman »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #166
vl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

You can do this at any dealership.

You'd like to think that, but no, there are plenty of dealers that will TELL you they're happy to negotiate everything by email/phone and then you just show up and get the car, but once you're there they want to change the deal and will still make you sit in a little office with someone that tries to add-on warranties, paint protection, prepaid services, etc.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#174

Post by golemiprague »

hinkley wrote: post #90
lisper wrote: post #45

This essay is getting a surprising amount of hate, and I must confess that my first impression on reading it was that it sounded an awful lot like a Robert Kiyosaki book [1]. But then I followed the two links in the essay [2] [3] and that put it into perspective: the thing that Paul learned from his users is that they are looking for The Answer, the formula, the procedure for how to succeed, and there is no such form…

And the whole thing with VC is that they've somehow figured out how to make money while being wrong 90% of the time. With those sorts of numbers, are you really doing much better than random chance? I think your main goal is not finding who knows the Answer, but to identify who's lying about it. With those sorts of volumes of money you're going to attract fraud, and fraud can quickly break "throwing darts at a board"…

No post body was provided.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#175

Post by bluGill »

geph2021 wrote: post #123
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #94

PGs take on why early stage VCs gain so much experience reminds me of my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience. I sold cars for almost a decade and was pretty good at it averaging 30 cars a month. That means every year I helped people sign for $16 million of products. In the end I probably sold 3000 cars for over $100 million. (Note, I stayed in it way too long. I think most of these benefits would c…

In my experience[1], interacting with the salesperson and agreeing on the cars' price is about 25% of the sale process (and hassle). The salesperson nails down price, model/unit, with the customer, which already involves all manner of sleazy games on pricing. After the "sale", there's a much longer gauntlet of pitfalls and traps to navigate: extended warranties, add-ons (roof racks, floor mats, etc...), financing, tr…

Everyone checks KBB, edmunds, and all the others before buying a car. Thus everyone knows exactly what the dealer is paying for the car before walking in. Nobody is willing to leave the dealer a reasonable profit margin or the salesman a living wage. There are plenty of other dealers and nobody is loyal so odds are they won't see you again no matter how good the experience is (if you are a corporation buying for a fleet you get different service). As such dealers look to other places to make money.

If people would decide to allow the dealers a reasonable profit margin things could change. Right now though dealers just see a sucker when someone does that though. I'm not hopeful things will change, but that is the first key.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#176

Post by bluGill »

wizofaus wrote: post #160
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for 20 years. Yet car salespeople are more important than ever from what I've seen. But let's ignore that because you could argue it's just opinion. My favorite example/rebuttal to this is: Imagine a car sales evolves to basically vending machines. You walk up to the box, pick a car, swipe your card, and a roll-up door opens and your car pops out. Amazing! No salespeople needed. Every tow…

A smart helpful person is one thing. Someone whose pay cheque depends on convincing people to buy a car even if it's not the right one for them is something else entirely.

In most industries salesmen are rewarded long term for selling you the right thing even if it isn't the most profitable today. However in the case of cars you buy one and odds are the next one will be a different brand and thus new dealer, even if it is the same brand you can choose a different dealer.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#177

Post by csa »

fairity wrote: post #53

More of a meta discussion, but it's interesting that pretty much all HN threads on PG's recent essays have a strong, negative sentiment. My guess is that this is explained by 3 factors: 1) The quantity and quality of new ideas in PG's essays is declining. 2) Readers' expectations of quality in PG's essays is increasing. 3) The pool of disenfranchised readers is growing. The quantity and quality of new ideas is decrea…

I would lay out a fourth possible option:

4. PG is thinking about YC at a high level of abstraction (e.g., making it a productive place for thinkers and makers like Xerox PARC was) while also having Inside Baseball-level knowledge [1] of YC strategy and tactics (both successes and failures) in ways that most people don’t understand well and don’t really appreciate.

Based on my personal experience and on the experiences of people I know well, most people are fundamentally perceiving the challenges of elite performers vastly different than those elite performers do.

As a simple example in my personal life, I was once a top tier online poker player. Trying to talk about hand histories with lower stakes players, even if they were winners, was an exercise in futility. The things that they had to focus on in their main games was very different what I had to focus on in my main games. Hand reviews that I thought were works of art that showcased high-level thinking were semi-regularly panned by the peanut gallery.

I remember one post in particular where multiple small stakes players were trying to tell me and another winning pro about how bad we were for recommending and explaining a line he took in a medium-stakes live game. We both thought the line was sound both strategically and tactically (although not at all obvious), and all we got were comments like “I wish I was bankrolled for you game… I would clean you out by [insert a strategy that would cause them to be repeatedly violated in those games, even by the “bad” players]”.

I’ve seen similar examples in sports, business, and research.

I think many parts of the HN peanut gallery would probably be well-served by focusing on being more curious and less certain, especially when dealing with people who have been wildly successful in their field of choice.

Note that I’m not saying that 4 is the “right” answer, but I wanted to throw it out there as another possibility.

[1] Inside Baseball is a tv show that goes super deep and super technical into details of baseball-related topics.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#178

Post by dento »

FerociousTimes wrote: post #168
christophilus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The margin might simply be from cutting out the middleman while keeping the middleman price. So, the buyer is not necessarily better or worse off. But not having to go through a pushy salesman is a big win. It’s why I love Carmax (and would probably like Carvana).

Tesla was supposed to pass some of those cost savings onto the end customer not to pocket it all like this but I'm aware that it's a corporation that's looking to maximize profits to their shareholders and extract as much value as possible from their clientele.

They are likely selling all cars they can produce. Why would they sell them at cheaper price point?

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#179

Post by thenerdhead »

hinkley wrote: post #98
thenerdhead wrote: post #32

> Speed defines startups. Focus enables speed. YC improves focus. Couldn't you substitute YC for mentorship, coaching, advisement, etc? Or even peers trying to accomplish shared goals/vision? Surprisingly this article has little to even say about users, but more about YC users (i.e. founders in the program). I was hoping to read something applicable to how little companies actually talk to users and how practicing ze…

Isn't that kind of the point of YC? Consultants are everywhere. Some are bad, some are just a bad fit. But the checks flow in one direction the entire time. YC's schtick seems to be that the checks flow in the other direction at first, when the listening often matters the most. Basically YC has found a way to profit off of consulting as a value add.

I just thought the title was misleading. It read to me that of the value add of YC to its users. Not to the value add that YC companies bring to their users.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#180

Post by jonny_eh »

zamfi wrote: post #118
lnwlebjel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rank buy a car from a new car salesman as the worst consumer experience of my life. So much so that I've since bought used cars and in the future hope to buy a Tesla in large part to avoid that experience. I understand that it could greatly benefit the salesperson in understanding the social psychology of the consumer ... but never again will I subject myself to that process.

> my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience Pretty sure the parent means "best" as in the best way to get experience doing sales for the salesperson .

That's why they said:

> I understand that it could greatly benefit the salesperson

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