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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#171

Post by djmips »

missjellyfish wrote: post #90
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status. So, a bus?

No not a bus, but maybe they could join together like a bus for long movements in the same direction.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#172

Post by izacus »

texasbigdata wrote: post #162
rsynnott wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. This company really has made Jobs' reality distortion field pale in comparison. Without comment on the specific innovation in the article, it's a _very_ weird assumption that all innovation in a field would stem from one company. That's…

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways.

Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#173

Post by papito »

texasbigdata wrote: post #162
rsynnott wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. This company really has made Jobs' reality distortion field pale in comparison. Without comment on the specific innovation in the article, it's a _very_ weird assumption that all innovation in a field would stem from one company. That's…

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

They did do it 20 years ago. Actually, 25 years ago. GM's EV1 was a car well ahead of its time, even with a decent range, but then it mysteriously disappeared.

This is covered in the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" (on Amazon).

So it's not like Elon Musk paved the way for electric cars - he just faced fewer headwinds. And let us not forget, he did not actually found Tesla, he acquired it. The company also barely made it if not for government help at the time of dire need.

Elon Musk, being the storyteller that he is, said once that he was drinking alone at a table in a club (who does that?) all sad due to the state of affairs at Tesla. It did not look like the company was going to make it. Then he was approached by his model future 2nd ex-wife, and the rest was history.

If only all men were living in an episode of Red Shoe Diaries.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#174

Post by zuhsetaqi »

arethuza wrote: post #168
zuhsetaqi wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the fastest in acceleration. Bring it to the Nürburgring and it's by far not the fastest car. Even the Porsche Taycan Turbo S is more than 2 seconds faster[0]. Driving quality or how good a car is is not defined by how fast a car can accelerate. [0] https://www.nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

I was surprised by just how much faster the fastest ICE cars are than the fastest electric cars - about 50s faster?

Yes, probably because electric cars have the heavy battery on board

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#175

Post by awestroke »

clouddrover wrote: post #158
awestroke wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, if you double the price of the car you can afford to slap lidar on it. You'll sell fewer cars, however

So what's the Model S's and Model X's excuse? They've got the Mercedes EQS price tag but not the equipment.

Tesla want to offer FSD on their whole lineup, not just in their high end models

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#176

Post by biztos »

papito wrote: post #173
texasbigdata wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

They did do it 20 years ago. Actually, 25 years ago. GM's EV1 was a car well ahead of its time, even with a decent range, but then it mysteriously disappeared. This is covered in the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" (on Amazon). So it's not like Elon Musk paved the way for electric cars - he just faced fewer headwinds. And let us not forget, he did not actually found Tesla, he acquired it. The company also b…

> drinking alone in a club (who does that?)

Every single drinking person who has a club to go to and needs to do some thinking, for starters.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#177

Post by texasbigdata »

izacus wrote: post #172
texasbigdata wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways. Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

I'm not really familiar with this market but I'll just quote one article from last week suggesting it's a bit more lopsided than that; things can change quickly obviously.

"Tesla accounts for more than two-thirds of all-electric car registrations (almost 68%), which is a dominant position, but the non-Tesla electric vehicle sales are growing at a similar rate and potentially might outpace Tesla later this year."

If youre outselling everyone else _combined_ that suggests a clear current market winner.

https://insideevs.com/news/604580/us-bev-premium-car-sales-2...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#178

Post by benj111 »

kolinko wrote: post #166
audunw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it wouldn't be part of the wheel... there's no reason for it to be, and it'd make the car impossible to use in countries with snow where you need to change the wheel every spring and winter.

You change tires, not the whole wheels between seasons.

Still, what tyre shop is set up to change tyres while still on the vehicle?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#179

Post by clouddrover »

awestroke wrote: post #175
clouddrover wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the Model S's and Model X's excuse? They've got the Mercedes EQS price tag but not the equipment.

Tesla want to offer FSD on their whole lineup, not just in their high end models

Ah, I understand. So the Model S and Model X are rip offs.

Better off with the Mercedes EQS. Or the Lucid Air for that matter:

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/lucids-lidar-based-dreamdr...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#180

Post by dncornholio »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #65
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

Plaid's times around the Nurb show that when weight gets solved with solid state batteries, which is what all the high end cars will use, ICE won't be competitive. And while it's been a bit like fusion power, always a couple years away, enough is happening in solid state that it's probably happening in a couple years. Now, it might now be competitive in the mass market, where I believe sodium ion and LFP/LMFP/etc che…

You mean, plaid has terrible Nordsleife performance? Overheating, super bad brakes and they run out of charge after 1 lap. Also, the lap-record of the plaid is not impressive at all compared to ICE.

The plaid lap-time was not on a standard car. They had ceramic brakes which you cannot order from Tesla. There were probably more modifications done on the car.

Also, a part from the weight, the range of EV vehicles seriously needs to go up to be competitive to ICE.

Plaid's Nurb lap only showed how far behind these cars really are still.

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