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A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

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Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#171

Post by apohn »

hakfoo wrote: post #128
Kirby64 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons for higher quality audio (24/32-bit data, higher frequency, etc) have value in the mastering process. For recording, yes there is value in it. It gives you freedom to adjust your recording without running out of headroom. For listening, no. Find me a double-blind test where 16-bit 48 or 44.1 kHz audio compares poorly to 24-bit 192 kHz audio. You won't find it. You'll find PLENTY of people claiming they ca…

I wonder if there's some real-world "resonance" we're ignoring. I could imagine an accurate statement like "the converted signal out of the DAC never diverges more than 0.005% from the original input", but could some aspects of that .005% produce some outsized weight when fed through a real audio system? I could imagine circuits that "rang" if given something that looks a little too square-wavey or hitting non-linear…

So don't take this personally, but comments like yours are one of the major reasons I refuse to participate in any audiophile communities.

There's always a hypothetical edge case for some audiophiles to claim that what they hear is possible. And no matter how much blind testing, research, or engineering is done, this hypothetical edge case means that something has not been proven. It's both pointless and exhausting to discuss anything with these people because the end result is always that the possibility that an edge case exists means you can't claim something is BS.

Imagine somebody claimed that people can fly by flapping their arms. You say this is nonsense, but they said you have to prove it. So you ask 10 people to try to fly by flapping their hands and they cannot. This is not enough proof for them. So now you ask 1000 people to try it. Then the person claims maybe people in your country cannot fly this way, but in other countries they might be able to. So you go to 10 countries and ask 1000 people to try. Now the claim is that you did not test enough people who went to the gym every day and you should have asked the strongest people to fly. When nobody from this group can fly, maybe you should test the lightest people with light bones. This keeps going forever because there is always yet another edge case. Welcome to Audiophilia.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#172

Post by JJMcJ »

jgust wrote: post #160
JJMcJ wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also some with CDs, but vinyl's the real deal. The record cleaner brush. Inspect the needle for dust. Be sure the record is properly seated. Sit back and enjoy.

Just watching the record spin is so incredibly satisfying.

Yes, a connection to the physical world.

Sometimes especially on Zoom I look at my cabling and think it's amazing that images of other people and their voices are going through that cable.

Only on Zoom and similar video conferencing. For all other uses I don't even think about it.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#173

Post by madengr »

ryukoposting wrote: post #103
kstrauser wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole line of thinking just blows me away. It's possible to accurately sample and reproduce any vinyl recording in the digital realm. It's absolutely not possible to accurately record every digital recording onto vinyl. For instance, it's not hard at all to make bass so loud that it causes the needle to leap out of the track, or treble so high that the needle can't accurately track the high frequency vibrations.…

I absolutely despise most of the vinyl community. Don't get me wrong, I love my records. I have hundreds of them and I play them regularly. For some reason, almost everyone I come by has this delusion that vinyl is objectively better than a good digital recording. Anyone who dissents from that narrative gets gaslit: "oh what kind of turntable do you have? oh that's not good enough, there's your problem right there."…

No post body was provided.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#174

Post by user_7832 »

bambax wrote: post #133
user_7832 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't worry, the crisis will not last long. Audiophiles will find a way to get over it and buy some better cables that would have revealed they were using a Digital source all along. You don’t need to attack any person or community - especially given that rich people buying expensive stuff is hardly hurting others directly. Please make good faith arguments.

> especially given that rich people buying expensive stuff is hardly hurting others directly Superstition is always bad.

If superstition is always bad, I take it you're also annoyed/angry at Wayne Gretzky or Serena Williams? Or any athlete engaging in superstition?

(https://thevarsity.ca/2022/03/20/athletes-superstition/)

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#175

Post by Sporktacular »

Seems like if they had used high quality analog tape instead of DSD they would only be getting criticism for not calling it 'two-step'.

There are some amazing analogue mastering recorders like the Ampex ATR-102 which they could have used. Tape wear would have been an eventual issue if they had to re-press hundreds of times, but that's just what the vinyl nuts want right?

But on the other hand, they lied. Seems Jim Davis deserves every bit of criticism he gets. As do some of the golden-eared audiophile journalists who also happily oiled the BS machine.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#177

Post by gerdesj »

JJMcJ wrote: post #163
ryukoposting wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely despise most of the vinyl community. Don't get me wrong, I love my records. I have hundreds of them and I play them regularly. For some reason, almost everyone I come by has this delusion that vinyl is objectively better than a good digital recording. Anyone who dissents from that narrative gets gaslit: "oh what kind of turntable do you have? oh that's not good enough, there's your problem right there."…

I remember when CDs were very very new the first review of them in an audiophile magazine a friend subscribed to. The reviewer was quite unhappy. The next month he reviewed a different player. He basically retracted his opinion of CDs but said the player from the previous month was obviously terrible, at least the particular one that he did his review on, if not the entire brand. And for audiophiles themselves, I not…

"I notice many of them seem to have very poor taste in music."

Great response and critique until that point. I'm old (52) enough to have seen quite a few media changes too. I recall that when you were off your tits at a party, and discussing music, you tried to find common ground. That could lead to some impressive contortions!

Can't say I ever spent much on playback hardware. I generally went second hand for speakers/amps etc. Once the Walkman was invented and then rather a lot of Chinese (and other copies were available) clones appeared then you could ruin your hearing close up with seriously decent quality sound on the move. I was still walking around with a mini cassette player with wired ear plugs in my jacket's breast pocket until around 1993ish.

I did lay out something like £200 on a pair of decent headphones for use at home. They make anything from O Fortuna to Ghost Town via say Schehehererherereherezade, Finlandia and One sound rather ... Special.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#178

Post by Sporktacular »

Kirby64 wrote: post #101
allears wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a recording engineer, and I can tell you that there definitely is such a thing as high quality audio. Certainly there are people who believe in snake oil and like to parade their ignorance as though it were knowledge. But if you bother to study the science of audio, read trade magazines, or hang out with engineers and studio owners, you will find that just quoting frequency range or dynamic range, or even noise f…

The reasons for higher quality audio (24/32-bit data, higher frequency, etc) have value in the mastering process. For recording, yes there is value in it. It gives you freedom to adjust your recording without running out of headroom. For listening, no. Find me a double-blind test where 16-bit 48 or 44.1 kHz audio compares poorly to 24-bit 192 kHz audio. You won't find it. You'll find PLENTY of people claiming they ca…

He's spot on. There are dozens of parameters that can describe audio quality. And his comment compared CD/44.1 kHz to master tape. He said nothing about hi-def.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#179

Post by bambax »

user_7832 wrote: post #174
bambax wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially given that rich people buying expensive stuff is hardly hurting others directly Superstition is always bad.

If superstition is always bad, I take it you're also annoyed/angry at Wayne Gretzky or Serena Williams? Or any athlete engaging in superstition? ( https://thevarsity.ca/2022/03/20/athletes-superstition/ )

I have never heard of Wayne Gretzky; Google tells me he's a hockey player. I don't think I have ever seen a match of hockey in my entire life. I'm not annoyed by what I don't know.

But the "superstitions" that the linked article mentions, are rituals, lucky charms. They're much less dangerous than going around pretending that something exists, that provably isn't there.

Audiophiles are moon-landing deniers. Some might think it's funny or harmless. I think it's terrifying.

Re: A Phoenix record store owner set the audiophile world on fire

#180

Post by Sporktacular »

user_7832 wrote: post #125
apohn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fallout of the MoFi revelation has thrown the audiophile community into something of an existential crisis. Don't worry, the crisis will not last long. Audiophiles will find a way to get over it and buy some better cables that would have revealed they were using a Digital source all along.

> Don't worry, the crisis will not last long. Audiophiles will find a way to get over it and buy some better cables that would have revealed they were using a Digital source all along. You don’t need to attack any person or community - especially given that rich people buying expensive stuff is hardly hurting others directly. Please make good faith arguments.

If they just bought it and shut up about it maybe.
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