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Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

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Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#171
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "even Masters program into science"?

A Master’s degree in CS, like a bootcamp, is a negative signal about an applicant.

I feel like you're doing the exact same thing the article's complaining about.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#172

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

FAANG isn't looking for experience at all. They want smart fresh college grads - better schools first. They have a large army of middle management ready to grind them until they either quit or promote up to middle management. They put a lot of time and money into this well oiled machine. Taking on senior devs is a waste of their time, they don't have the processes or culture to integrate them - and seniors have an ab…

Doesn’t Netflix only hire people senior engineers though? Perhaps you’d disagree about the definition of senior.

It probably is true that new grads are preferred and are more malleable into the company culture.

It feels to me that hiring from competitors is less about harming other companies and more about the signal that people know how to deal with the various ways big companies may work.

If the median(?) age at Google is 29, isn’t that a combination of (a) growing a lot and (b) hiring a lot of new grads? Then it’s mostly a function of the average % of the size of the company you hire each year at 22 years old.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#173
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you speculating that orzig meant to say "a Master's degree in CS" instead of "even Masters program into science"? Are they somebody you know personally?

> In my experience, an MS degree has been one of the strongest indicators of poor technical interview performance. > Whereas MS degrees used to be a means for departments to begin vetting future PhD students, I believe that the purpose has, in some ways, shifted to be a cash cow for the university in question. > Part of the problem is that CS fundamentals instruction tends to happen in undergrad computer science cour…

Perhaps you posted this comment on the wrong thread? I'm pretty sure orzig isn't Aline Lerner, because she's the CEO of a recruiting company who used to work in engineering, and orzig says in a recent comment that they are an American engineer. So what could Lerner's viewpoint on MS degrees possibly have to do with unpacking what orzig meant to write when they said "even Masters program into science"?

I notice you haven't answered either of the questions I asked you in my comment, which seems like a pretty hostile attitude to me.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#174

Any advice on up-leveling here? I'm a generalist backend dev that's bounced around startups for a while and am now pushing 40 and have been thinking about how to specialize before it's too late

Find something you're passionate about

It's hard to work just for money, that's usually not where love lies

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#175

I'm experiencing this now and it's taking some energy to not become disillusioned with the industry. Generalists, or people with a "wide T", are also a lot less valuable than specialists. For any given technology or stack right now, some company out there is doing something cool with it, and they only want to hire people who are already familiar with their particular configuration. The couple of tech interviews I've…

> Generalists, or people with a "wide T", are also a lot less valuable than specialists I actually disagree with this. Speaking anecdotally but also someone who works at a FAANG-esque co, full stack or “wide stack” (front, back, infra, sre) are the most desirable due to their versatility and knowledge of the interworkings of various parts of the stack.

Someone needs to tell HR then. That is in no way what they are looking for.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#176
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people really do have to pivot up through some more average jobs first before landing the Big Tech jobs with huge paychecks. But the assertion here is that too many “pivoting up” jobs are a negative indicator. (An “upper class” programmer wouldn’t spend time in the “lower” classes.) Not saying I agree or disagree with this, but the existence of a class system in tech jobs is the OP’s central point. Edit: The O…

"Wrong kind of experience is worse than no experience" is an interesting concept. It implies that the people thinking like this think that people aren't mutable. With no experience, you're a tabula rasa, but once you've been carved, that's it, fixed in stone. Which may be true for some people, but I'm fairly certain that humans are known for their adaptability, their willingness to learn. At least that's why they get…

> With no experience, you're a tabula rasa, but once you've been carved, that's it, fixed in stone.

I mean, if you work in a company/team with bad practices, then that's likely to rub off onto you and affect your further employment prospects, because it will be hard to unlearn being okay with untestable code, no documentation and even the code itself not being self-documenting where possible, the code being not scalable, having N+1 problems and so on.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#177
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

generalists tend to get stuck with all the most tedious work from every department that simply no one wants to do someone has to do it, and if the pay is adequate, it's a matter of attitude. not getting credit (appropriate $ compensation) for your influence i don't understand this part. you already have your salary, as negotiated. are you saying that such a positions are always underpaid? and if such a position reall…

IME from doing general work at 3 companies in different industries (which might not be fully representative): Also sorry, turns out i ended up venting >someone has to do it, and if the pay is adequate, it's a matter of attitude. the pay is adequate for the value of the work (which is low), and it eats up your time which actually lowers the average value of your work to the company. it isnt anything other people cant…

it seems the primary problem is the mismatch of pay is adequate for the value of the work (which is low) and it seems better fit for someone near retirement then someone with goals of trying to buy a house and raise a family because the latter tend to expect a higher salary due to their accumulated experience.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleges are less impactful for trendy tech companies than they are for finance or whatever. I went to a no-name state school and could get into these things. If you really did an internship programming at Walgreens, it's easy enough to omit it from your resume.

Is the "state degree" vs. "Ivy League degree" thing that common in US society? I ask because I've just joined an American company, and a person mentioned that they'd been hired and given a chance to excel "despite only having a state degree, much to my Mom's disgust", which surprised me. In my country, there's not much difference between the respective universities in terms of 'prestige'.

Anecdotal, but as a hiring manager, I've interacted with only one person from Harvard, he was very impressed with himself and knew how to talk but when we asked him to do a small test project (we paid him for), the work he did was really not great. He took a long time to deliver something that barely worked, didn't follow best practices/common idioms of the framework he was using (framework that he selected by himself and supposedly had 2 years of experience in). He was also extremely aggressive in salary negotiations which is fine if you can deliver (and I know people who made a lot of money by being good at salary negotiation) but less so when you can't.

I've worked with quite a few MIT graduates and overall they've all been very good at what they do. So, sample size of one in the case of Harvard but I think Ivy leagues are not all created equal for a given major.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True! It doesn't "mean" that. But you get the picture.

I think it does though, ages are right skewed. The median is likely under 29 in this example

The median probably is 29, that seems a lot more reasonable than the average being so.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#180

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

FAANG isn't looking for experience at all. They want smart fresh college grads - better schools first. They have a large army of middle management ready to grind them until they either quit or promote up to middle management. They put a lot of time and money into this well oiled machine. Taking on senior devs is a waste of their time, they don't have the processes or culture to integrate them - and seniors have an ab…

This isn't my experience. Multiple people that I used to work with at a no name company now work at Amazon Google and meta.

I've gotten offers to onsite at Google and other big tech cos but didn't follow through due to not wanting to grind LC

These places seem to be hiring like crazy.

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