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High property taxes are good

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Re: High property taxes are good

#171

Post by jjoonathan »

dwater wrote: post #87
kashkhan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

property taxes are terrible for old people. you should be able to buy a reasonable amount of land tax free. USA has about 2.5 billion acres. 1/4 acre per person in an average area tax free is reasonable.

The way people in the US plan for old age and retirement, and the way they are treated by society, is terrible and property taxes are aspect of that. But the only way you should be able to own land tax free is if there are no government services provided on that land. No utilities, no public road, no emergency services, no municipal services. I don't know of anywhere in the US where that is an option. Unless you're s…

> tax free if there are no government services provided on that land

You're still giving the "it's property" framing waaay more credit than it's due. Remember, granting someone exclusivity to a contested resource means preventing other people who would like to use the resource from using the resource. It's entirely reasonable for those people, represented in aggregate by the government, to ask for compensation in return, even if the government provided the landowner no additional services beyond the exclusivity.

The entire concept of "owning" land is just a hustle to argue against paying taxes on it.

Re: High property taxes are good

#173

Post by Fauntleroy »

beefman wrote: post #148

Threads about real estate are invariably overrun by clueless 20-somethings who think 'muh zoning' will let them afford property in the [elite metropolitan neighborhood]. Statistically none of you will be able to afford a home here; my advice is to leave while the leaving's good. Especially if you were lured here by some VC who sold you a metric ton of variance and went to the bank with the drift. But hey, they're on…

I'd settle for home prices in [way out there suburb of a delapidated major urban area] to be relatively affordable. You might be surprised to know that many of the "twenty somethings" that make it out to the big city actually have brains inside their heads.

Re: High property taxes are good

#174

Post by hammock »

bbatha wrote: post #168
chadash wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem (IMO) is that it's not so simple to value land. Where I live, being two blocks over can make a huge difference. It's easy to say "you paid $500k for your house, so we're gonna tax you on $500k". It's much harder to accurately say what someone would have paid for the land were it not developed. I understand the benefits of LVT, but how do you solve this? Are there any good examples of governments t…

Outside of California "you paid $500k for your house, so we're gonna tax you on $500k" is not how property taxes work. The town/city/county typically does property assessments on regular basis (usually annually). These are based on doing comparisons with like houses in your neighborhood and are equal prone to "2 blocks over is way more desirable".

Difference without a meaningful distinction. Houses are bought on credit, that credit isn’t approved without an appraisal that supports the price being paid, and that appraisal is done using comps similar to a tax assessment.

Re: High property taxes are good

#175

Post by lapetitejort »

btilly wrote: post #107
throwthroyaboat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Prop 13 also apply to commercial property? And second/third/30th houses? I think they smuggled a bear in as a rabbit with this one.

It does, but commercial property tends to change ownership and undergo construction more often. Therefore property taxes on commercial property tends to be higher. As a result, cities have an incentive to build commercial property over residential homes. The result is that the people working in those offices are competing for limited residential space (leading to high prices) and often have to settle for long commute…

When was the last time Disneyland changed hands?

Re: High property taxes are good

#176

Post by ceejayoz »

bombcar wrote: post #63
vanilla_nut wrote: post #2

In my region of northern New Hampshire, there are a lot of retired folks with houses rising from $200k-ish values to closer to $500k-ish values in the last 5-10 years. As such, there's a lot of discussion around lowering property taxes to help these retirees. In my opinion? Fuck 'em. Property taxes are a brilliant method of perfectly progressive taxation: you can always choose to live in a cheaper home. If your home…

Strange, around here property taxes are allocated based on proportional value, true, but the total amount collected is set by the township budget. So if they collected $10m last year, and will collect $10.1m this year, it doesn't matter if the houses have tripled in value, you'll pay roughly the same dollar amount.

This is how they work pretty much anywhere; the locality aims to collect a certain amount in total taxes, and sets a per-$1000 tax rate based on the total value of all taxable property in their jurisdiction.

People think doubling house value doubles property tax, but the bill could go down if double is less than the average increase for the area.

Re: High property taxes are good

#177

Post by newaccount2021 »

beefman wrote: post #148

Threads about real estate are invariably overrun by clueless 20-somethings who think 'muh zoning' will let them afford property in the [elite metropolitan neighborhood]. Statistically none of you will be able to afford a home here; my advice is to leave while the leaving's good. Especially if you were lured here by some VC who sold you a metric ton of variance and went to the bank with the drift. But hey, they're on…

No post body was provided.

Re: High property taxes are good

#178

Post by medvezhenok »

chadash wrote: post #154
vanilla_nut wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does grandpa get to live in a two bedroom apartment in the LES during retirement when so many other people can't afford it despite working for a living ? If he owns, you'd think that he could sell the two bedroom and downgrade to a one bedroom to keep the monthly cost down. Or even a studio. But at some point it's an incredibly desirable, expensive neighborhood and I'm not sure anyone deserves the privilege to li…

Because 90 year old grandpa can't move as easily as us youngins and it's not his fault that the neighborhood gentrified around him. At this point he can't afford to the taxes on a studio either. But anyway, the process of moving is really pretty tough at that age, even the logistics of finding a new apartment and hiring movers. Now, you move out to the suburbs because you can't afford the city anymore, but you don't…

First, grandpa will have to move eventually. 90 year olds in Ukraine got caught up in a war they had nothing to do with and had to move.

Second, if the neighborhood gentrified around grandpa, his house value has gone up - he can sell at a good profit and use the money for his retirement as he wishes.

Third - consider the counterfactual renter who was living in the same place and working just like grandpa, but had to move at the age of 60 because he couldn't afford the rent anymore. Why does grandpa get to stay but the other person, who is a renter with the same life story get forced out of the neighborhood?

Re: High property taxes are good

#179

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

dwater wrote: post #87
kashkhan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

property taxes are terrible for old people. you should be able to buy a reasonable amount of land tax free. USA has about 2.5 billion acres. 1/4 acre per person in an average area tax free is reasonable.

The way people in the US plan for old age and retirement, and the way they are treated by society, is terrible and property taxes are aspect of that. But the only way you should be able to own land tax free is if there are no government services provided on that land. No utilities, no public road, no emergency services, no municipal services. I don't know of anywhere in the US where that is an option. Unless you're s…

Why not solve it like social security? You pay in over most of your life, then retire. If you call the fire department after you’ve retired, they’ll still come because you spent a life time paying into it.
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