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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is irrelevant because the entire organization’s profit margins are where increased wages would come from.

My point is that the entire organization's profit margins are not likely to be anywhere near 2-4%.

That is what their 10-K filings say.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#172
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage, more than double the federal minimum wage. I think at the time Walmart was at $10 or $11. I live in very liberal SF but outside of my bubble, I hear people complain that it’s not possible to hire Nannies/housecleaners/employees anymore when Amazon and Starbucks pay $18/hr. Seems like the answer is easy: pay them more or make the job…

You’re saying conflicting things, Amazon “leads raising wages” to you but then “it’s not possible to hire X at rate Y so people have to pay more.” Amazon has to pay more because their jobs are shit. They aren’t doing anything to raise wages they’re just trying to get people’s asses in the door. I’m sort of shocked you linked to the department of labor’s historical page as some sort of proof of your idea. I can guaran…

Amazon rose wages and have some the highest warehouse worker wages around, to the point where they are creating upward pressure on wages in other industries.

Their jobs also are super stressful and burn people out.

These things are not contradictory.

Anecdotally, in support of the comment you are replying to, Starbucks poached our babysitter. $25/hour is the market rate for babysitters around here, and $100-$150 a night isn't anywhere near enough to screw with her sleep schedule. She works $18/hr morning shifts and now owns a car.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#173
post #123

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

What employment contract? They’re at will

> What employment contract? They’re at will

Despite the colloquial use of the word "contract," there is generally always going to be an employment contract (agreement) in place.

Similarly, people colloquially talk about having a "contract" for things like cellphones meaning a fixed term, but there is always an actual "contract" (agreement) with the terms of the service regardless of whether the plan has a fixed term or not and regardless of whether it's prepaid or not.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Amazon will push for more automation and they will all lose their jobs. Right now these workers work at Amazon, because that's the best paying job they can find.

Amazon will push for more automation regardless.

If the costs of labor go up fast, they have much more incentive to automate. When right now they may think it's cheaper to hire humans.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#175
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were to try to guess, it's that it forces political cooperation on people under threat of not having a job. Imagine the situation where every single company in your state is a union shop (you have to join the union and pay dues if you work) - and every single union is wildly pro-gun, supporting candidates who want everyone to carry two guns (but they'll compromise to only men and only one if pushed). So to live…

I live in a country (Romania) with almost no legal guns, so I am missing some context. I thought that with the USA constitution guns are a right that "shall not be infringed", so what exactly "anti-gun" means: changing the constitution or ignoring it? Most of the news I see, people are trying to ignore it, which is basically ignoring the laws. In this case, Amazon breaking some laws seems to fit well in the picture.

The Constitution is not “the law”, it only restricts what the government can do, not individuals.

Guns are a right but only to a limited extent. No right is absolute. The debate right now is how far this right extends.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#176
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that becomes a lot more tolerable if you're getting double your previous pay.

The pay is why the employees don't quit en mass.

Is this the same Amazon that is convinced they will run out of employees in a few years because they quit so often?

https://www.vox.com/recode/23170900/leaked-amazon-memo-wareh...

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#177

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

It's a bad thing if the people signing the card or filling out the form do no, in fact, want the union to represent them. In fact, if you look at those signs they pretty much all have one thing in common: the people they'd convince not to sign up to a legally-binding agreement that the union will represent them are those who are not aware this is in fact what they're signing up for, and in the case of the last one specifically people who aren't aware this isn't something Amazon is requring of them as a normal part of the job. Make of that what you will.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#178

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

They’re transparently trying to exploit people not knowing any better and being horribly afraid about losing their jobs in a recessing economy. It’s despicable.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#179
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help Can you show your work here? Assume Amazon executives cut their salaries to 0, how much extra would they be able to pay workers?

Everyone would get 213 dollars a year extra if just their CEO didn't receive any compensation. Amazon employs approximately 1 million people in the United States and Andy Jassy received 213 million total comp in 2021.

So, practically none.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#180

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China What? You think overseas manufacturers are paying $30 an hour? It wasn't high-skilled manufacturing that was outsourced. Welders and machinists still have near zero unemployment and make about as much as a software engineer. It was low skilled manufacturing jobs that were outsourced…

If the jobs were to come back to the US, they'd need to pay $18+/hour, since they're worse than a warehouse job, and Amazon pays so well.

At that point, the factory owner is going to be focused on automation and robotics, so most of the jobs they offer will be for highly skilled positions (and pay more than welders or machinists make).

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