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New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

drive.com.au

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Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#171

Post by palmetieri2000 »

worewood wrote: post #108
ThatGeoGuy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why shou…

The limits on ebikes are to prevent battery and motor overheating and catching fire.

Absolutely incorrect at least in Australia, they are entirely to manage speed in pedestrian areas.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#172

Post by PradeetPatel »

atoav wrote: post #137
PradeetPatel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any statistics to back that claim up? E.g. loss of workforce / strain put on the healthcare system vs revenue from traffic policing.

Not the OP but this is pretty much a no-brainer: over your life, do you pay more in taxes or in speeding tickets? Now think about it that way: that car you bought, in which way did you buying that car also produce revenue for the state? Right, even more taxes. The state might also have already invested into your life, e.g. in the form of public education. And we are not speaking about health system, damages to street…

That is a very good observation and a well-explained statement. Thank you for providing an additional perspective from a nation level macro lens as opposed to an individualistic level.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#173

Post by atoav »

picsao wrote: post #152
atoav wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'll bite. The single most thing I hate about driving car in Germany is the lack of an upper speed limit on big stretches of the Autobahn. If you cross over from any neighbouring country any driver will notice that what before was a friendly chugging along now has become a stressful battle between people who just want to go somewhere with a good compromise of speed and fuel use and speedsters who will breath up yo…

Straw man, germany has physical speed limits on most of the Autobahn. Meaning the rightmost lane is usually filled with trucks, leaving one or two lanes, were the aging populations slowest drivers create a upper speed limits (usually 120). And even those struggle with those slow Netherlands caravans. Your habbits are not a borthright to be a traffic obsticle in another country.

I said driving on the German Autobahn (I live in Germany btw.) is more stressful than driving on a same looking street that has a speed limit of say 130 like in Austria. Traffic flow is better when all people go at similar speed. Safety is better, pollution is better, noise is better and it makes not that much difference.

Given the fact that air resistance is increasing quadratically with speed, that fast cars are loud, that accidents cost everybody in a socity time and money and that we have even more to expect in form of climate change not having a speed limit seems like a very radical political position. It doesn't seem radical, because it has been "normal" for a long time, but it is forcefully irrational.

Nothing against a little bit of irrationality. I am jumping into the sea or lakes from cliffs, bridges and cranes. But this is a danger to myself and not to others. Also I check beforehand how deep the water is.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#174

Post by stby »

redox99 wrote: post #143
stefan_ wrote: post #59

Every toy drone will refuse to fly into protected airspace. Theres no reason a car made in the past 10 years should be able to go 50 mph and beyond in a city.

But a toy drone is a toy. It isn't really super impactful if you can't fly it in a protected airspace. A more meaningful comparison would be with an airplane (small Cessna, big airliner, whatever). Do you think these airplanes should automatically steer away from protected airspaces?

Aviation has solved this problem a long time ago by controlling airspace and having laws that are actually enforced. Your plane may not prevent you from entering restricted airspace, but it may very well be the last thing you do as a pilot.

Besides, modern planes have tons of automation that can take control of it, from simple things like preventing it from stalling to more complicated things like avoiding flights into terrain or automatically landing the aircraft at the nearest airfield.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#175

Post by pas »

atoav wrote: post #173
picsao wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man, germany has physical speed limits on most of the Autobahn. Meaning the rightmost lane is usually filled with trucks, leaving one or two lanes, were the aging populations slowest drivers create a upper speed limits (usually 120). And even those struggle with those slow Netherlands caravans. Your habbits are not a borthright to be a traffic obsticle in another country.

I said driving on the German Autobahn (I live in Germany btw.) is more stressful than driving on a same looking street that has a speed limit of say 130 like in Austria. Traffic flow is better when all people go at similar speed. Safety is better, pollution is better, noise is better and it makes not that much difference. Given the fact that air resistance is increasing quadratically with speed, that fast cars are lo…

many people do go 160+ in Austria, then hit the brakes when the speedcam approaches, then speed up again.

that said the problem is, according to my observations, is that the German highways are full, there are more cars, so it's harder to go at almost any speed. so yes, it's more stressful.

(and just to mention something else stressful on German highways: Hochzeit Korsos! we had the pleasure to see one very close this year on the ring around München)

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#176

Post by noduerme »

athrun wrote: post #169
noduerme wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then take away the need for "real ID" to board planes and trains. Without the ability to travel freely, you end up very quickly with this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-61793149

AFAIK there's no need to show IDs to board a train in Europe (maybe some EU countries have other rules there, I don't know). For planes it will depend on whether you're crossing a border or not. Sometimes you get ID checks on domestic flights but that's because of airline policies (ie: fraud, insurance) rather than internal border control.

In the US, passport or biometric ID is now required for all domestic flights and intercity trains. YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE.

Of course it is required in Europe. Where it is not required, you are already known. For example, if you live in Berlin you have no possible hope of getting to Brussels to attend a protest without every movement you make being put into a database.

In America, we do still have one method of transportation which is not entirely watched - if your car doesn't broadcast its GPS location. Of course there are cameras everywhere, but it is possible to visit a lover or a brothel or whatever without being tracked and blackmailed if you take proper precautions. You? You have no hope. Don't ever think about meeting a lover if you want to run for office one day.

The only people who can run for office in a state with no privacy are the people with access to erase their data from the database.

But of course, we should give up this one method of obfuscation of our movement -- because we might be speeding in the car. If we did so we would be in a complete prison.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#177

Post by noduerme »

atoav wrote: post #158
noduerme wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the last time, my comment is not about the privilege of people to drive (which you seem to want to abolish?) it's about the right to move around without being tracked. Also, it is about your rights to privacy if you should want to exercise them.

I am not sure how you extrapolate me being against people driving from me being against people speeding . You can drive very well without speeding. Tracking is a different issue sure, but there is nothing in this problem that relies on tracking. You need to read the current map data and the position of the car via GPS. You need to write nothing (and given the privacy laws in Europe, I don't really see why we would).

Your assumption that no data will be written, about where/when/why your car automatically brakes, is incredibly naive. Everything is written the moment your car has a GPS tied to a wireless service. If you think European privacy laws are preventing that from happening, you're utterly insane. Even if your country doesn't store the data, the Americans are storing it and your country may ask for it at any time.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#178

Post by koonsolo »

atoav wrote: post #126
userbinator wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First it's optional. Then they make it increasingly harder to disable. Then they make it mandatory. Surely everyone who has experienced abusive changes in software can see that pattern from a mile away? They aren't going to roast the frog, but instead boil it very slowly...

Ok I'll bite. The single most thing I hate about driving car in Germany is the lack of an upper speed limit on big stretches of the Autobahn. If you cross over from any neighbouring country any driver will notice that what before was a friendly chugging along now has become a stressful battle between people who just want to go somewhere with a good compromise of speed and fuel use and speedsters who will breath up yo…

Maybe I'm too old school, but I don't agree with you. Here in Belgium there used to be a law that when you have 2 lanes in the same direction with a middle section separating the other direction(s), you could go 120. Then it became 90, and now in most places it's 70. There are no pedestrians there, so there is no real reason why not to drive at least 90. Everybody there drives 90. Speed limits are currently just too low, that's why nobody is obeying them. And adapting roads to go slower is just plain ridiculous.

I have the feeling that the politics works like this: A lof of people are speeding on that road, so let's just lower the speed limit. Real consequence is that now everybody is speeding.

Same with construction works: 30km/h. Even in the weekend when nobody is working there. So basically a free road and you have to go 30km/h. Nobody does that of course. I know a buddy of mine once did that to be funny, and we got passed by a scooter. Huge line of cars behind us. Crazy.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#179

Post by koonsolo »

ThatGeoGuy wrote: post #84
lvass wrote: post #9

So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road signs being used to decelerate and rob cars.

I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why shou…

Let's do a joke where we go on the highway, and some people in the back pull out a painted sign with (30). Camera of the car behind you detects it and breaks. I can see such shenanigans happening.

Re: New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

#180

Post by koonsolo »

Add it to the list of things I need to disable when I start my car:

- disable start-stop system (that shit is dangerous!)

- put it to sport mode

- and now: disable speeding alarm

It starts to feel like I'm starting a fighterjet with all those buttons before takeoff.

Good thing I still have my motorcycle :)

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