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The SQLite Code of Ethics

sqlite.org

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#171

Post by adamrezich »

nindalf wrote: post #168

There’s that libertarian streak of “his project, his rules” in this thread. He can include or exclude anyone he wants because it’s his project. Well, I read the very first line and see that he doesn’t want me, or people like me to be a contributor to this project. And that’s fine . His project, so I hear. But personally, I’ve felt welcome to contribute to every other open source project out there. I’ve felt welcome t…

from https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html:

> SQLite is open-source, meaning that you can make as many copies of it as you want and do whatever you want with those copies, without limitation. But SQLite is not open-contribution. In order to keep SQLite in the public domain and ensure that the code does not become contaminated with proprietary or licensed content, the project does not accept patches from people who have not submitted an affidavit dedicating their contribution into the public domain.

what makes you think that every open-source project should "make you feel welcome"? "I shouldn’t be made to feel like this"—where does that idea come from? "shouldn't" on what basis? many open-source projects' Codes of Ethics/Conduct/whatever make me feel explicitly unwelcome, but a.) I don't care, and b.) I don't feel entitled to feel welcome in everyone else's project. what makes you feel differently?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#172

Post by LAC-Tech »

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #166
LAC-Tech wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's helpful when seeing the word "fascist" in 2022 to not take it literally. It now simply means "people to the right of me".

It would be extremely naive to think that fascism only happened in the 1920s-1940s. Obviously, todays fascism looks nothing like that of the modern era, just as todays leftists are different. But it’s back, poisoning our democracies and pushing the world into a new hell. Putin is a neofascist. I could tell you which Americans are fascists, but you all get touchy when anyone brings it up.

Ah yes, the crypto-fascism conspiracy theory - or the blackshirt scare.

There's fascists everywhere. They don't call themselves that, they don't organise under that label, and their views aren't particularly similar to historical fascism - but it's a serious threat! It's so powerful that they have to keep it a secret because they'll be cast out of polite society...

At least McCarthy actually found people spying for the USSR.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#173

Post by tpoacher »

bitwize wrote: post #136
thaneross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but notice the contrast with the popular, Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct, which makes it abundantly clear its aim to enforce a set of beliefs on its contributors, with no boundaries between professional and personal life.

The Contributor Covenant is the gold standard for a reason: it is a response to the bigotry and harassment problems that were endemic to the open source communities. Alone it doesn't achieve much, but combined with a good faith enforcement board it helps keep a community a pleasant, joyful place to contribute to, for everyone. And that will increase software quality and attract quality people, aside from being, you k…

> combined with a good faith enforcement

which, of course, is the elephant in the room, isn't it.

Good faith contributors don't need the code, because it was not written for them. It was written for the pathological cases.

And systems designed around pathological cases are themselves pathological.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#174

Post by pawelmurias »

iasay wrote: post #29

This scares me slightly. When I see a code of ethics bound to faith, I have to wonder what happens if the faith disappears. Experience says lots of people get hurt. I don't wish that on anyone. Ethical stance must stand alone unconditionally. As for the actual rules, picking one in particular, respecting someone purely for being senior is stupid. Respect is simply earned. I respect more people younger and in more jun…

The SQLite Code of Ethics has no relevance to you using the license. A code of ethics base on a whim rather than faith wouldn't be any more reliable.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#175

Post by kwhitefoot »

jacooper wrote: post #142
ripley12 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SQLite generally doesn't accept contributions. "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution" https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html

I don't understand why he didn't just use MIT or CC0 as license. It gives the same rights and the same limitless nature, so why use an arbitrary license which might cause problems in some countries ? And also makes the contribution workflow more complex?

There is no license. And all the contributors are in countries that recognize the concept of public domain. Why should they concern themselves with the niceties of licensing in some countries? How would choosing a different license guarantee a different outcome in those unspecified some countries?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#176

Post by _vertigo »

nindalf wrote: post #168

There’s that libertarian streak of “his project, his rules” in this thread. He can include or exclude anyone he wants because it’s his project. Well, I read the very first line and see that he doesn’t want me, or people like me to be a contributor to this project. And that’s fine . His project, so I hear. But personally, I’ve felt welcome to contribute to every other open source project out there. I’ve felt welcome t…

Comparing the first rule to something based on race is a bit of a stretch.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#177

Post by strager »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #71
yodon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When I see a code of ethics bound to faith, I have to wonder what happens if the faith disappears. Let's do the math: Christianity has been around for around two orders of magnitude longer than any of the compilers or dev tools you're using on your project. There are probably three orders of magnitude more people who use Christianity than are using any of the languages used in your project. There are probably six or…

By the numbers far more people have suffered under these dithering superstitions, that doesn't make them objectively better.

> far more people have suffered

Compared to what?

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#178

Post by kwhitefoot »

flaviut wrote: post #70
jimbob45 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for all the current developers which makes it seem like Christianity is a prerequisite for getting hired or contributing. I get frustrated at the SJW CoCs but this is arguably just as bad or worse.

SQLite neither accepts external contribution nor do they hire anyone.

They do not accept contributions unless they are dedicated to the public domain. It's not quite as strict a no contributions at all.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#179

Post by nindalf »

adamrezich wrote: post #171
nindalf wrote: post #168

There’s that libertarian streak of “his project, his rules” in this thread. He can include or exclude anyone he wants because it’s his project. Well, I read the very first line and see that he doesn’t want me, or people like me to be a contributor to this project. And that’s fine . His project, so I hear. But personally, I’ve felt welcome to contribute to every other open source project out there. I’ve felt welcome t…

from https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html : > SQLite is open-source, meaning that you can make as many copies of it as you want and do whatever you want with those copies, without limitation. But SQLite is not open-contribution. In order to keep SQLite in the public domain and ensure that the code does not become contaminated with proprietary or licensed content, the project does not accept patches from people who h…

> many open-source projects' Codes of Ethics/Conduct/whatever make me feel explicitly unwelcome

Most open source projects Code of Conduct boil down to "don't be mean to other contributors, treat them well". I'm sorry this makes you feel explicitly unwelcome. That said, it's never been a problem for me to adhere to that.

This is a first time for me being excluded, and it feels bad. I'm commenting on why this person has gone out of his way to do that.

Exclusion is not the norm in online programming spaces. Nor would we tolerate it if someone started excluding people on the basis of something like race. But seemingly there are apologists for exclusion on the basis of religion.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#180

Post by teakettle42 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #143
teakettle42 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best response? “No”. The code of conduct push was a transparent game of social aggression — an attempt to shift open source power dynamics in favor of: (1) Allowing social activists, who could not acquire institutional power on the basis of their own technical merit, to co-opt open source institutions for their own aims and to extract resources. See also the contributor covenant, DEI consultants, et al. (2) Secur…

So a few bad apples has ruined the whole idea in your mind? Are you also satisfied with the diversity within the project communities that you contribute to?

> So a few bad apples has ruined the whole idea in your mind?

It’s not a few. They’re primarily a tool for bad actors to secure institutional power.

However, even if we take the surface-level arguments for a code of conduct in good faith, the entire concept is rooted in the premise that a healthy community arises out of strictly codifying social norms and permissible beliefs, imbuing a central, unaccountable authority with the power to police and enforce those norms, and treating dissension with this approach as a moral failing in of itself.

> Are you also satisfied with the diversity within the project communities that you contribute to?

I don’t know how to answer that question; can you define “diversity” for me?

What personal attributes should I poll from all contributors to measure their diversity? Do you have a score sheet I can use? What does it mean if our “diversity score” is too low? What does that have to do with a code of conduct?

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