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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

> raising money to support violence against conservatives Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author.

Except the kind of people who donate to something like that think that all conservatives are nazis.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#172
post #96
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of being an Adult TM is separating emotions from work. Admittedly, I was able to work on some very cool shit at Amazon - however the job made me hate my life. Ergo - adult logical cycles were spent, decided to get a new job after leetcoding for a bit. The people who aren't skilled enough to get new jobs or improve themselves (also holds true in any industry) will always be some degree of fucked. I admit, some un…

What does your first sentence mean? That you cannot have likes and dislikes and that you cannot want to improve the things you dislike? I don’t get it. Could you explain that.

I think it may mean that the poster thinks that changing "at-will" to "just cause" is a language change rather than a procedure change (which now routes discipline and dismissal through a union intermediary.) It's the only way I can make sense of the language: that people are being sensitive snowflakes because they want these nicer words to be used.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.

This is a more anti-union post than the one it's replying to (and also reference-free.)

The flip side is that a union shop, especially a recently unionized one, is much more tight-knit. I still have close friends from a union struggle years ago. And you have job security, collective bargaining power, and Weingarten rights for the duration of your time at that company.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#174

I don't understand unions for tech workers. We're not living in shacks rented to us by the company and can't afford a bus ticket to a new city or school to start a new life. We're making six figures here. Want more pay? Sit on your butt and do leetcode or practice interviews and network with other rich programmers. Move to a tropical island and work remote. Heck, you don't even need to go to college and just about an…

Have you heard some of the horror stories from the game industry?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bargain for myself, thanks. Well, that's good to know. I guess the rest of the world can stop worrying about themselves since you're taken care of.

He's saying he doesn't want the choice denied to him, as unionization advocates frequently attempt to justify.

Democracy needs no apologies. You are denied choices everyday because society and government have agreed upon those choices. There will always be those upset because they feel their rights are infringed upon.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market. Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company. Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer. If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union…

> Distorted wages for labor is not good for broader society Real life on planet earth disagrees pretty hard with you. Google "___est countries". Pick a metric that shows policy impacts. Say, health, happiness, etc. The kind of metrics that aren't abstract BS and can't be cherry-picked. Pick the first, say, five. Then look up their unionization rates. I'll spoil it for you. Nordic countries win (it doesn't even matter…

The Nordic union system is apparently different, the unions are responsible for distributing unemployment insurance. In places like Canada you get that everywhere as long as you’re not a contractor. So there’s a much bigger incentive to join in Nordic countries.

> The thing about unions in the Nordic countries, though, is that they’re different from unions in most other countries. I learned this in Denmark in 2007 when a union steward at Lego A/S, which had just announced plans to move a bunch of factory work to Eastern Europe, gave me an impassioned lecture on the positive economic aspects of outsourcing. Unions in Denmark saw (and presumably still see) preserving the competitiveness of Danish industry as a much higher priority than protecting specific jobs. They arrived at this mindset in part because Denmark is a small country trying to succeed in a big, scary world, but also because access to generous unemployment benefits is what leads many (perhaps most) workers in Denmark to join unions in the first place.

> Denmark, Finland and Sweden are what are called “Ghent system” countries, where unions administer the unemployment insurance program with help from government subsidies. Norway used to have a Ghent system but abandoned it in 1938. Belgium, where the actual city of Ghent is located, has a “partial Ghent system.” In recent years, the link between union membership and unemployment insurance has weakened in the remaining Ghent system countries too, with most union-affiliated insurance providers now formally independent, and scholars from those countries have written lots of papers about the pressures the system is under. But from the perspective of many outside observers it still looks pretty great in the way that it combines continued union strength with a flexible, pragmatic approach to serving workers that seems quite compatible with economic competitiveness.

https://archive.ph/2ExBA#selection-6089.0-6961.1

From “ The Conservative Case for Unions”:

> This is not to say the old style of American industrial unions will come back, or should. The mid-20th-century enterprise model, as it was called, relied on confrontational tactics to organize particular companies or factories. That may have succeeded in an era of oligopolistic, locally rooted corporations. However, in an era when even a slight increase in labor costs at a North Carolina factory sends jobs to China, organizing just a single company can boomerang against workers and management alike.

> Fortunately, other models have emerged elsewhere in the world, models that can benefit both companies and labor. A well-known example, popular in Europe, is the so-called works council, which gives workers a voice in company affairs without triggering the fraught, complex process of creating a formal union. In Germany, unions can organize entire sectors, rather than particular companies, giving employers and workers incentives to cooperate in ways that improve industries’ competitive position.

> Even more intriguing is the Ghent system, successful in Denmark and Sweden, under which unions administer government-funded unemployment benefits. Providing that safety net helps unions to shift their focus from protecting individual jobs to maintaining workers’ overall income security; this in turn allows employers more flexibility in hiring and firing.

https://archive.ph/2ycDr

The best argument for unions is to evolve them from the large rigid bureaucratic ones that protect bad workers to ones that focus purely on wages, while keeping the country competitive (Unions 2.0 if you will).

Also I was surprised to find out France has less unionization than even the US (9% vs 13%).

Otherwise I think reducing anything to a single metric like that is silly.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#177
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimum means the least you can do of something. For example, if the minimum amount of dollars you must pay for something is seven, then you cannot pay six dollars or less (you must pay at least seven). You can do more than the minimum, but no less. [0] [0]: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_and_minimum

Unfortunately, the minimum in employment agreements is frequently also the maximum.

Their current minimum is 0%. I suspect "you get a 3% raise this year" will be treated the same way "you get a 0% raise this year" is.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an oligopoly/cartel, which represents monopoly power on labor demand, and is illegal

Did anyone go to jail over it? No. I doubt anyone was even fired. It was settled for $415 million split 4 ways between the companies involved[1]. So it's "illegal", but in terms of repercussions experienced by the offenders I'd say it's up there with a $150 speeding ticket. https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/apple-google-others-...

That's a problem with elected officials/regulatory agencies.

I'm a strong believer that government's number one priority should be to maintain a competitive market, as in the long run that produces the best outcomes for broader society.

Unfortunately they've failed quite badly at it. Especially in regards to big tech.

Important to direct ire towards those that are responsible, representatives need to be held accountable

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#179
post #19
post #8

Is it mandatory for employees to join the union?

Depends on the contract, but when I worked for Kroger years ago, if I opted out of the union, I got like 2 more $ an hour but at the cost of some other benefits. I was 15 so of course I opted out for that extra cash.

Holy crap those are some insane dues! I had a similar experience working for a grocery store at that age. I am pro-union since I have seen the good it does for trades, but it seemed scummy trying to convince me to join the union as a kid who was on his parents insurance at the time and didn't need benefits.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#180
post #99
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"unskilled labor" What an extremely elitist phrase.

> What an extremely elitist phrase. This! I hate when people talk about "unskilled labor" because there is no such thing. There definitely is work that requires less training than other jobs, but there is no such thing as unskilled labor.

You're certainly glad that your uber driver can't be suddenly promoted to airline pilot though, right?
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