Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#171

Post by O__________O » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #164

O__________O wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually have specific notable (and comparable) examples of technology based industries that reached relatively the order of magnitude crypto has that were rapidly killed off? Otherwise, as is, your response to me is without merit.

Someone gave you one. Here's another: Software patents were judicially created in the US by a single fed circuit opinion. The field wildly expanded to many many many billions of dollars until a single supreme court opinion. While still kind of alive (mostly legacy lawsuits), the vast majority of the value was rapidly killed off post supreme court decisions (and AIA) This kind of thing happens all the time - in softwa…

Billions, even 10s of billions, is not comparable to trillions.

None examples so far have provided independently source of valuing industries claimed, nor to my knowledge have any of the industries cited have as many direct customers.

Feel free to provide specific (and comparable) examples.

To be clear, just trying to be objective. For example, NFTs alone for living artist easily surpassed the billion made in non-NFT sales for living artist; sure NFTs were 30-40% behind in total volume, but that’s largely for dead artists.

Further, you keep bring up legal changes, but I am not aware of any pending legal matters that might have a substantial impact on the use of the technology itself; further, crypto is global and clearly adapted to legal changes including all out bans in China.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#172

Post by O__________O » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

hhmc wrote: post #134

O__________O wrote: post #50

Besides Terra (LUNA), Celsius Network (CEL), 3AC, and Babel Finance —- are there other examples? * As is, while clearly some of these failures have had a massive impact, there clearly a lot of DeFi projects of significance still standing: https://coinmarketcap.com/view/defi/

> Besides Terra (LUNA), Celsius Network (CEL), 3AC, and Babel Finance —- are there other examples? but other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln?

Care add something substantive to your response?

* Explanation of comments meaning: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Other%20than...

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#173

Post by DannyBee » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

O__________O wrote: post #171

DannyBee wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone gave you one. Here's another: Software patents were judicially created in the US by a single fed circuit opinion. The field wildly expanded to many many many billions of dollars until a single supreme court opinion. While still kind of alive (mostly legacy lawsuits), the vast majority of the value was rapidly killed off post supreme court decisions (and AIA) This kind of thing happens all the time - in softwa…

Billions, even 10s of billions, is not comparable to trillions. None examples so far have provided independently source of valuing industries claimed, nor to my knowledge have any of the industries cited have as many direct customers. Feel free to provide specific (and comparable) examples. To be clear, just trying to be objective. For example, NFTs alone for living artist easily surpassed the billion made in non-NFT…

Hahaha. So you are combining all of the different types of markets/etc in your case, but not in the case of comparison? And then just discounting them anyway with no reason why. Saying "it's not comparable to trillions" is both wrong and useless - it is not a reason, it's an assertion, and one not backed up.

I'm not going to continue this, because you are definitely one of these folks who seem to believe crypto is unique in value and capability, that somehow make it not capable of failing (but can't explain why other than "when you add up all the theoretical money involved in tons of distinct markets and uses that somehow relate to crypto it's a lot"). This is IMHO distinct failure of objectivity and imagination.

The entire stock market failed enough in a single day to wipe entire economic segments out and then continued to die - 2 day loss = 25%, 3 year loss = 89%. Eighty nine percent.

It's so amazingly naive to believe that in the thousands of years of human history that nothing like crypto has happened, that large scale markets on the same order of magnitude of crypto markets have not failed, etc, that i don't even know where to begin. Then going further and just asserting anyone who starts to provide you examples is wrong/incomparable without even a single sentence that backs up why, makes this a pointless conversation.

You don't want to understand, you want to win.

Have a good one.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#174

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

lifty wrote: post #45

Question for the crypto skeptics of HN. Do you think this cycle the whole crypto space goes down the drain never to be heard of again? Do you think the whole space is a fad or do you think there are patches of values underneath the froth? How do you see the space evolving? Thanks!

This feels a bit more likely to be the end than previous collapses (last time round, the ecosystem wasn't advanced/broken enough to show the sort of contagion hitting it now). On the other hand, never underestimate the ability of fools to be parted from their money; see NFTs, for instance. It's quite likely that there'll be another crypto-y... thing along sooner or later.

It's notable that classical Ponzi schemes come back in the real world from time to time; they just need a very light reskin, and people buy in again. Plausible that the same happens with crypto to some extent.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#175

Post by jtode » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #167

jtode wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to the other countries, but I have no recollection of a bank run here in Canada in my lifetime. Do you have a link? And the scope of my comment is clearly limited to the USA. We don't have a "fed".

> Starting on 19 April 2017, Home Capital Group in Canada started to suffer a bank-run on its deposits after an Ontario Securities Commission report was filed that had accused the subprime lender of deceiving its investors in 2015 with its lending practices There is a list of bank runs on Wikipedia for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bank_runs Comment threads frequently switching (without noti…

That list is extremely incomplete, and makes it seem like bank runs are happening more lately than ever before. In the 19th century and before they were frequent:

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/banking-panics-...

And the creation of the federal reserve was in reaction to this.

Our contemporary love of deregulation is the most regressive and self-destructive push back into the bad old days I have ever witnessed. Texas, with their blackouts and water shutdowns, are showing America their future, and about half of the country seems to think that's a coming paradise.

I stopped trying to understand it years ago, for the most part. Other than through the facile P.T. Barnum framework, which I don't consider constructive or useful, as much as it seems to be true.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#176

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

O__________O wrote: post #130

DannyBee wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is always very funny to me. History is rife with hundred-billion dollar industries destroyed in very short periods of time, across multitudes of field types. For example, i've watched fields created by single legal opinions, grow to many billions, and then get destroyed overnight by a different legal opinion. All in the course of 10-15 years. The amount of money in it is just not a sufficient condition…

Do you actually have specific notable (and comparable) examples of technology based industries that reached relatively the order of magnitude crypto has that were rapidly killed off? Otherwise, as is, your response to me is without merit.

Don't see what technology has to do with it. All sorts of weird financial instruments are created, grow enormous, and then either are banned, or scare people enough that everyone stops using them.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#177

Post by capableweb » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

jtode wrote: post #175

capableweb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Starting on 19 April 2017, Home Capital Group in Canada started to suffer a bank-run on its deposits after an Ontario Securities Commission report was filed that had accused the subprime lender of deceiving its investors in 2015 with its lending practices There is a list of bank runs on Wikipedia for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bank_runs Comment threads frequently switching (without noti…

That list is extremely incomplete, and makes it seem like bank runs are happening more lately than ever before. In the 19th century and before they were frequent: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/banking-panics-... And the creation of the federal reserve was in reaction to this. Our contemporary love of deregulation is the most regressive and self-destructive push back into the bad old days I have ever wi…

> That list is extremely incomplete, and makes it seem like bank runs are happening more lately than ever before. In the 19th century and before they were frequent:

Yeah, that might be. I'm not making any claim that bank runs are less frequent now than they used to be or vice versa. I'm just showing that the claim "runs don't happen" isn't true.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#178

Post by O__________O » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:55 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #173

O__________O wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billions, even 10s of billions, is not comparable to trillions. None examples so far have provided independently source of valuing industries claimed, nor to my knowledge have any of the industries cited have as many direct customers. Feel free to provide specific (and comparable) examples. To be clear, just trying to be objective. For example, NFTs alone for living artist easily surpassed the billion made in non-NFT…

Hahaha. So you are combining all of the different types of markets/etc in your case, but not in the case of comparison? And then just discounting them anyway with no reason why. Saying "it's not comparable to trillions" is both wrong and useless - it is not a reason, it's an assertion, and one not backed up. I'm not going to continue this, because you are definitely one of these folks who seem to believe crypto is un…

Neither fan or hater of crypto space based technology; said as much prior, but appears you’re not reading my replies.

Further, you clearly did read the OP comment, which said the “whole crypto space” — so no, I don’t believe me responding to that as the scope is off-topic, changing the scope, etc.; I didn’t even include cryptography, which is obviously part of the space, worth $10 of trillion and used 7.26 Billion or making up 91.54% of the world's population; every phone uses cryptography.

Next, lol, money is obviously real, claim it’s not is funny at best, not even worth responding too; obviously not worth the 10s of trillions the public equity market is worth, but again, no example you’ve supplied came close to even 10 billion; reminder that trillion divided by billion is 1000, even at 100 billion, that still 10x larger; even at 10 billion, that would be like comparing industry making $1 a year to one that makes $100.

No idea what the whole 89% of the stock market point means; either literally, or as it relates to the topic.

Cheers.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#179

Post by O__________O » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #176

O__________O wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually have specific notable (and comparable) examples of technology based industries that reached relatively the order of magnitude crypto has that were rapidly killed off? Otherwise, as is, your response to me is without merit.

Don't see what technology has to do with it. All sorts of weird financial instruments are created, grow enormous, and then either are banned, or scare people enough that everyone stops using them.

From OP comment, “ Do you think this cycle the whole crypto space goes down the drain never to be heard of again?”

Obviously the tech is part of the “whole space” and not a fade; didn’t even bring up encryption, which is the fundamental core of crypto. Sure encryption might be ban, but if you think governments will apply that to themselves, that’s obviously not a common or reasonable position.

Re: Crypto lending company Babel Finance halts redemptions and withdrawals

#180

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 8:31 PM UTC

yessirwhatever wrote: post #25

fakedang wrote: post #18

Remember when crypto was supposed to be the "holy grail" against the current economic situation? Edit:- the cycle of upvotes and down votes on this comment hahaha....

The concept is sound, implementation is what matters. Blockchain and crypto got hijacked is all.

this reminds me a bit of 'not real communism' or 'not really free market.'

The basic concept was that mathematical limits made crypto fundamentally anti-inflationary: you can't debase the currency by minting more of it in response to exigent circumstances (you could wonder whether some inflation should exist to account for population growth and the demand that goes with it, but that kinda presumes universal adoption),

The problem was that while the minting of a cryptocurrency can be mathematically self-regulating, there's no barrier to just setting up more cryptocurrencies. A big reason I have not become more heavily involved/invested in crypto was that everyone I asked about the utility of having ~15,000 different virtual currencies hurriedly changed the subject. How is a rational investor supposed to choose between the proliferating altcoins and shitcoins...and why? The only honest answer I ever got was 'throw money at a bunch of cheap things and then shill the fuck out of them in the hope that they become expensive.'

Crypto just swapped inflation in the currency supply for inflation in the number of currency instruments.