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Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

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Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#171

Post by ryathal »

tomp wrote: post #111
arcticbull wrote: post #48

As always the issue with privatized social services is that the goal is to make money, not to provide a service so the incentives are fundamentally misaligned. For-profit care providers make money when the fail to provide care. When they fail to cover procedures. When they can substitute lower-quality or less effective goods and services. When they can sell you catastrophic cover with deductibles and co-pays too high…

Um, what? In theory, free market healthcare should improve alignment. Insurance companies pay procedures and make money when people are less sick. Hospitals make money when they perform procedures. Insurance companies are therefore incentivised to only pay procedures from competent hospitals, the ones that won’t result in more follow-up costs. The problem is, of course, it’s not a free market - neither on the hospita…

The prices not being public is a problem, but really the big issue is the indirection in payments. No one really knows how much is getting paid to an insurance company for their insurance, and no one really knows how much an insurance company is paying out. Anyone that actually knows these numbers is isolated (and often hidden) from the patient and doctor.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#172

Post by chinchilla2020 »

arcticbull wrote: post #64
an9n wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hope you make a better fist of it than the UK - the NHS is currently unreformable to any significant degree, due to it being weaponised by the left.

UK per capita health expenditure: $4650USD (#17). US per capita health expenditure: $11000USD (#1). I don't know what the 'left' is doing there but it seems very efficient.

This may be semi-skewed by the exchange rate power of the dollar

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#173

Post by maerF0x0 »

Adrox wrote: post #152
maerF0x0 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point was that they're doing things that either are unneeded or not effective. If either of those are true, their lives do not depend on those procedures.

Exact same thing as Marketing spend. You cannot split the good from the bad. I really cannot understand how you can even think about doing healthcare system for profit. Posting this from a Single-pay country, Germany.

Is Germany single provider too?

In my armchair politics I do wonder if single payer, market provider might work. You get the competition of the market, but the tax payer purse. I think technically this is how medicare works but there are a bunch of nuances that make medicare not work (such as negotiation of prices).

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#174

Post by maerF0x0 »

arcticbull wrote: post #158
maerF0x0 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... > because of having the kind of health care system you have in making sure that everyone who needs to be treated is treated That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually b…

> This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. > That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually but you might die or get sicker in the interim. Every system in…

> Good to know you didn't read the article before replying.

Didn't read the entire article due to quickly findable glaring issues of quality, yes.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#175

Post by [deleted] »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #174
arcticbull wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. > That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually but you might die or get sicker in the interim. Every system in…

> Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. Didn't read the entire article due to quickly findable glaring issues of quality, yes.

[deleted]

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#176

Post by maerF0x0 »

arcticbull wrote: post #158
maerF0x0 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... > because of having the kind of health care system you have in making sure that everyone who needs to be treated is treated That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually b…

> This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. > That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually but you might die or get sicker in the interim. Every system in…

https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surge...

Saying America spends more is pretty weak claim because Americans are fatter, more often shot, face worse natural disasters (hurricanes, earth quakes)... Of course they spend more. There are hundreds of variables why healthcare per capital would be cheaper in Canada from CoL to quality of doctors (the ones that remain are ones who cannot compete in the highly paid US Market), to greater public safety net or social goods in all areas resulting in fewer high cost outcomes (eg, Canadians take more PTO)...

Overall i think the main difference between what you're interested in and what I'm interested in -- that which we're calling "superior" differ.

To me a system is superior if it gives better outcomes to those who pay for the service. VS you seem to be claiming that a better outcome is something like the average across all citizens.

To me this is like saying "We all need food, therefore when we go to the grocery store you will be charged the average bill and given what you absolutely need to not die, but not necessarily what you need to thrive. This is how we keep others from starving..."

For me I want to go to the grocery store and receive the best I can get for my money. It's a just system to receive what you pay for and to not receive what you do not pay for. I do also believe in a separate, external to the government, system of charity to cover cases which are truly unfortunate, but also to keep people accountable for their contributions to their own health when able or

Anyways, it seems you're squarely set your values based opinion, and I am on mine. So there's no longer a reason to discuss further.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#177

Post by dragonwriter »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #176
arcticbull wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. > That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually but you might die or get sicker in the interim. Every system in…

https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surge... Saying America spends more is pretty weak claim because Americans are fatter, more often shot, face worse natural disasters (hurricanes, earth quakes)... Of course they spend more. There are hundreds of variables why healthcare per capital would be cheaper in Canada from CoL to quality of doctors (the ones that remain are ones who cannot compete in the h…

> Saying America spends more is pretty weak claim because Americans are fatter, more often shot, face worse natural disasters (hurricanes, earth quakes)... Of course they spend more.

“Fatter“ and “more often shot” are at least in part due to choices about the focus and distribution of physical and mental health care, not independent factors (in fact, the political faction most defensive of the ways in which the US system differs from the less-expensive, comparable overall outcomes systems in the rest of the developed world also is prone to claiming that the elevated risk of being shot is primarily a product of defects in the health care delivery system, though they tend to lose focus on doing something about those deficiencies quickly after pointing to them.) If you've got evidence that the health impacts of natural disasters are greater—in a way explained by the nature of the disasters alone and not choices in the structure of the health care system—in the US than any, much less all, of the other advanced economies in the OECD, please point it out, because that would be interesting.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#178

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

rnk wrote: post #98
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know the answer to this. Every single person in the world. The way to fix the US system is for the health insurance market to be regulated like the auto insurance market, i.e., break up the state monopolies. Then for our employers to give us the money they're paying on our behalf. Then we could shop for a health insurance plan like auto insurance. Within a couple of years, the market would start sorting out th…

That's incredibly naive. I can already shop for health plans in the us, and it's a shitty result. The rest of the wealthy western world has national health insurance and it works really well. The US is the broken system with declining health of its citizens, even before COVID.

Yeah, it's a shitty result. A family plan costs $25,000/yr. As I alluded to, there are state boundaries that present a pseudo-market of health insurance options. If we'd remove that regulation, and allow companies to sell policies across all 50 states, it would create more competition, and lower prices. If there was real competition here, every other ad on TV would be for Geico, Farmers, and FREAKING Liberty Mutual HEALTH insurance.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#179

Post by cwmma »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #143
cwmma wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People frequently die, or get sicker, as they wait their turn in months long queues or lack of supply due to government quotas. There are often months long waits for here too, try getting a dermatology appointment, we just also have the privilege of paying for it out of pocket as preventative skin care checks are not actually classified as preventative medicine so it counts towards your deductible meaning you have…

pay out of pocket is the nature of the system, so it's not really a point. What would be a good point is a discussion about if want a society where the people who pay for a procedure get better outcomes, or if we're willing to say to those who pay "You will get a worse outcome because we're also serving those who cannot pay. This comes down to cultural values and ethics.

> "You will get a worse outcome because we're also serving those who cannot pay

Vs America where you get a worse outcome due to laborynthian beuracratic rent seeking.

Sounds terrible for Canadians to be forced to make things better for poor people if they want to improve things for themselves.

Re: Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs

#180

Post by arcticbull »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #176
arcticbull wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article has a couple immediately glaring flaws that lead me to not invest the time to deeply analyze it on the whole... Good to know you didn't read the article before replying. > That's completely false, Canada has a presupplied quota system set by government forecasting and limited by budgets. If you need treatment you will be treated eventually but you might die or get sicker in the interim. Every system in…

https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surge... Saying America spends more is pretty weak claim because Americans are fatter, more often shot, face worse natural disasters (hurricanes, earth quakes)... Of course they spend more. There are hundreds of variables why healthcare per capital would be cheaper in Canada from CoL to quality of doctors (the ones that remain are ones who cannot compete in the h…

Actually my opinions are data driven.
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