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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#171

Post by null0pointer »

bifrost wrote: post #80
condercet wrote: post #68

It is not fair to place the blame for this epidemic of violence squarely on those suffering from mental health issues. Mental health issues are distributed globally, but the gun violence problem is not. People who suffer from mental health issues are tremendously more likely to be victims of violence, rather than the perpetrators. These individuals already suffer from tremendous discrimination and hardships in their…

If we're going to talk numbers - most gun deaths involve gang/drug activities. The real numbers once you remove suicide and gangs all point to mental illness and DV/Violent individuals.

False. Most, approximately 60% of the total, gun deaths in the United States are suicide.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#172

Post by trevcanhuman »

bediger4000 wrote: post #126
onesafari wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause may be bullying and ostracization combined with the media contagion effect. This is a repeating pattern. Bullying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/uvalde-texa... The gunman in Tuesday’s elementary school massacre was a lonely 18-year-old who was bullied over a childhood speech impediment, suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently an…

There's an amazing amount of "anti-bullying" education that goes on. I've got 4 kids and they all got many hours of anti-bullying. The issue there is that the solution is (at least in Denver Public Schools) that the burden is put squarely on the students. The message is that only students can prevent bullying. My experience is that teachers and administrators absolutely will not intervene. One of those 4 kids was get…

I guess we've lost our sense of individual justice. Standing up for ourselves, making what's right on our mind even if it means consequences.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#173

Post by [deleted] »

freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

[deleted]

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#174

Post by spoils19 »

westondeboer wrote: post #129
bifrost wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to talk numbers - most gun deaths involve gang/drug activities. The real numbers once you remove suicide and gangs all point to mental illness and DV/Violent individuals.

this is a talking point that has no proof.

Can you find numbers to refute it? It's more likely that the parent comment is true than the opposite.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#175

Post by yucky »

freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

I suspect identity politics are too blame, since the rise of that correlates to the increase in shootings. A big part of identity politics is to demonize "the other" and if we're being honest, to shift the blame for all of societal ills onto males. Younger males may not be able to shrug those pressures of as easily as others.

I think this also helps explain why girls never shoot up schools, despite having the same access to guns as boys. All of our safety nets are designed around helping females, and letting males sink or swim.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#176

Post by whatever1 »

themacguffinman wrote: post #160
whatever1 wrote: post #6

We need gory pictures from the executed kids everywhere. Until we understand the magnitude of the horror. I look at my FB and see proud gun owners cracking jokes and I really cannot comprehend how it is possible.

If I show you gory pictures from a car accident, would you understand the magnitude of the horror of cars to the extent that you would want to ban cars?

Yes I would be willing to have mandated integrated breathalyzers in the cars to disable them when the driver is intoxicated.

Also cars are indeed banned for people who have not passed a driver's test.

On the other hand I can walk into a sporting goods store like Dick's and get a gun and a thousand bullets no questions asked.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#177

Post by jstream67 »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #41
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take social media activity into account during background checks. Increase the age to purchase to 21. 1 month waiting period. I'm a gun owner btw. I also wonder what interesting things would happen if in order to own a gun you must drill with a militia.

What do you mean by take social media activity into account? Should people who have unfashionable or unpopular opinions be not allowed to purchase a firearm? Or is it that they made a threat of violence at some point?

only rich democrats would be allowed to own guns - for evidence see how concealed carry permits are handed out in blue areas. The government is incapable of wielding that level of power without massive corruption.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#178

Post by jstream67 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #35
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

There's plenty of "intellectually stimulating" conversation about this and has been for decades. For the most part we value civility and compromise so highly that we'll accept the routine murder of children rather than pay the price of pissing a bunch of people off with gun reform. The conversations aren't the problem, the guns are. There's not really a path to compromise here, I don't think. Either we stop having gu…

we have constantly and consistently 'compromised' by adding more and more gun laws. Oddly none of them prevent this kind of issue as it is already illegal to kill someone

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#179

Post by Supermancho »

rajin444 wrote: post #64
KerrAvon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity It really is not. There are too many guns available, too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility, let alone trained in the proper ways to handle a gun. The answer isn't to throw more guns at the problem or to blame inadequate mental health facilities. It is to reduce gun availability. A…

> too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility Banning guns is not the answer. Instilling that civic responsibility is - the benefits are astronomical.

It's believed that the US has 120 guns per 100 people and there are 7 guns per 100 people in Israel[1]. Israel has 10% of the number of gun-related-deaths (reported) that the US has, with some VERY heavy gun control laws - which routinely gets more strict[2].

What's interesting is that the number of people who take a shot at certain political figures is very low in the US, despite politics being so deeply concerning to so many adults. This feels like an adolescent/young-adult problem that's come to light. If there was a force like the Secret Service/FBI that cracked down on a WHIFF of threatening schools and the media coverage was blacked out for a month, we might see progress without getting mired in a gun control debate that won't be solved in our lifetime.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-new-pu...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#180

Post by steinjones »

beloch wrote: post #83

Canada is the U.S.'s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Gun ownership is also high in Canada. In terms of guns per capita, the U.S. is #1 by a long shot, but Canada is #7 [1]. In Canada, guns owned per capita is one third of what it is in the U.S.. Canada also has mass shootings. The annual deaths from mass shootings per capita in Canada is 0.032, which is about one third that of the…

Correlation is not causation. How many times do people need to hear it?
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