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Is everything falling apart?

nonzero.substack.com

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Re: Is everything falling apart?

#171

Post by BiteCode_dev »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #53
zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an endless cycle. As the saying goes... Hard times make strong men Strong men make good times Good times make weak men And weak men make hard times.

"Strong men" make fascism, not good times. It's pretty much the definition of fascism - a delusional paternalistic idiot infecting everyone around him with his own neuroses and narcissism, in the name of "patriotism" and "respect."

I think you are the one infected with a very paternalistic vision of strength.

Strength is the ability to apply force, it's the quality of solidity, the potential for resistance, etc.

E.G: it takes strength to not act on fear and hate. Gandhi is considered a man of great strength.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#172

Post by NoGravitas »

david927 wrote: post #157
RivieraKid wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what the article is about at all.

The article seems to be blaming the division of society on the Like button. I'm saying it was going to happen with or without that for the reasons I listed.

Yes... the article that this article was responding to is the kind of thing you get when you rule out an analysis of material conditions and focus exclusively on the ideological superstructure.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#173

Post by giantg2 »

macintux wrote: post #148
mbg721 wrote: post #124

It's easy to lament polarization, but the reason it's not going away is that there are important differences in how people view the world, and calls for unity are really closer to "It would be so peaceful if we could eliminate the opposing viewpoint once and for all".

I’d just be happy if we could agree on basic facts. I don’t expect everyone to agree on the right way to solve a problem, but it seems increasingly difficult to even come to a common understanding of what’s true and what’s not.

Do you have an example of that? I haven't seen a lot of debate about the data (facts), but usually it's about the information (how it was formed from the data). Of course there are a small group of leaders (and/or crackpots) on either side spreading blatantly false info, but I feel that's rather small and receives outsized coverage.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#174

Post by dangerlibrary »

paulpauper wrote: post #167
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

Old institutions cannot compete with Elon Musk, YouTube, podcasts such as Rogan, and the dopamine of social media. The CDC changing minds on masks hurt confidence, for example. Someone like Musk is viewed as decisive .

While Musk is certainly more entertaining - which coincides with your point about dopamine - I would not call him more decisive. The argument that the "CDC flipflops but Musk does not" doesn't really hold water.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026872652290379776

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#175

Post by Avicebron »

machinevision wrote: post #132
giraffe_lady wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets straight into realms of like eschatology and the sources of and constraints on life, areas in which I hold deeply unpopular beliefs compared to the norm here. The most neutral way I can phrase this is that I think life is a planetary expression, more or less fundamentally inseparable from the planet on which it emerges. We may eventually be able to break those bonds but I don't think we're anywhere near as…

Why do you feel we should not try? (genuinely curious in your PoV)

I don't necessarily agree with giraffe_lady, but I can see the argument where leaving the planet fundamentally changes what we currently consider "human" society to a point where it no longer can be a considered a continuation of the general earthly society. Evolution maybe, but less star trek and more belters from the expanse but taken to an absolutely extreme extent. Maybe closer to something like Seven Eves.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#176

Post by paulpauper »

leereeves wrote: post #26
taylodl wrote: post #8

The constant theme since the dawn of civilization threaded through all of history is that everything is falling apart. Change is continual. History is more like the seasons. Nations rise. Nations fall. Sometimes there's revolt. Sometimes there's peace. There's a continual game of King of the Mountain being played at all levels. So what can we say? Situation Normal - all effed up! Enjoy this phenomenon called life. Yo…

> Nations rise. ... Sometimes there's peace. In short: sometimes things aren't falling apart. For a few decades we enjoyed one of the great periods of peace and prosperity. That was surely doomed to end eventually, but I wish it could last a while longer.

For a few decades we enjoyed one of the great periods of peace and prosperity. That was surely doomed to end eventually, but I wish it could last a while longer.

You mean Ukraine? I would hardly say that the current situation threatens the post-ww2 peace. Compare now to ww2 and the differences are huge. ww2 claimed vastly more lives, in addition to Stalin and Hitler.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#177

Post by UnpossibleJim »

goodpoint wrote: post #117
rank0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t understand what you’re trying to convey. The terms fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning nowadays…at least to the far left.

On the contrary, historic fascism was obsessed with masculinity, strength, nationalism and created an environment of narcissism and cynicism. It's well documented by historians. TheOtherHobbes is using the term correctly. To the naysayers: I recommend you travel and visit museums.

It's the nationalism, totalitarianism and dictatorial control that make fascism. The obsessions are a means to an end or just quirks by example and do not necessarily fascism make.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#178

Post by BiteCode_dev »

goodpoint wrote: post #117
rank0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t understand what you’re trying to convey. The terms fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning nowadays…at least to the far left.

On the contrary, historic fascism was obsessed with masculinity, strength, nationalism and created an environment of narcissism and cynicism. It's well documented by historians. TheOtherHobbes is using the term correctly. To the naysayers: I recommend you travel and visit museums.

They were also drinking water every day.

That doesn't make water bad.

I wish for people to be strong, just like I wish them good health, because it's a quality that makes for a happier life.

If one has the strength of character not to be pressured to do bad things, you get less fascists, not more.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#180

Post by tenpies »

NationalPark wrote: post #140
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

We have some relatively recent public polling data on this phenomenon: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/20/republicans... For what it's worth, the decline of trust in institutions is primarily among "Republican/lean Republican" respondents, who are a minority of American voters and likely a minority of American non-voters as well.

> For what it's worth, the decline of trust in institutions is primarily among "Republican/lean Republican" respondents, who are a minority of American voters and likely a minority of American non-voters as well.

The problem with this line of thinking is that "Republican/lean Republican" is not a fixed trait. People can switch to that category instantly, overnight; so dismissing them just because the last time there was an election the other party managed to curry more votes after having every advantage possible - that's quite dangerous from a societal coherence standpoint.

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