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Public Money, Public Code

publiccode.eu

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171–180 of 216 posts

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#171

Post by toomanybeersies »

sonicggg wrote: post #155
pooper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus, literally all of the other devs on my team repeatedly committed secure credentials to git no matter how many times I tried to teach them how to use a .gitignore file Why do they even need to have access to production secure credentials during development? Why not let them fall into the "pit of success" so local development never talks to a production server anywhere?

If it's hard enough for to tech companies to hire skilled developers, I can only imagine what the bar is for public work. They might even resort to hire some brain damaged people.

Here in Australia, only citizens can work for the Commonwealth (federal) government. The end result is that, due to a lack of competition from immigrants, the public sector is basically just a jobs program for those too incompetent to work in the private sector.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#172

Post by toomanybeersies »

inChargeOfIT wrote: post #118

The US is getting better about it, some more than others, but a few off the top of my head.. https://github.com/department-of-veterans-affairs https://github.com/nationalsecurityagency https://github.com/GSA https://github.com/CMSgov https://github.com/CDCgov

You missed the 18F Github org [1], also from the GSA.

I wonder if there's a directory of government Github orgs somewhere?

[1] https://github.com/18F

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#173

Post by toomanybeersies »

atx42 wrote: post #93
victorvosk wrote: post #79

I mean as nice as this sounds, our money is spent on all sorts of things we know nothing about. Should we all be provided with the schematics for F-35s?

Exactly! Where do you draw the line? Does CIA/NSA have to drop their shorts?

Ironically, the NSA is probably one of the better US Gov agencies when it comes to open sourcing their software: https://github.com/nationalsecurityagency

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#174

Post by quanticle »

ldoughty wrote: post #71
postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

This is the kind of issue that causes all that government bloat... If I was a state employee and I wrote the app, and I had to release the source code, then I'm making it very easy for a bad actor to find a vulnerability and exploit it to leak the data of citizens. One might respond: "Well software shouldn't have those holes! Just because it's closed source, doesn't mean that won't happen anyway Also true, in an idea…

I had to release the source code, then I'm making it very easy for a bad actor to find a vulnerability and exploit it to leak the data of citizens

So that's why no governments run Linux servers, right? After all, the Linux kernel is open source.

And just to throw in a silly extrapolation... I would love an M109 Paladin tank... my tax dollars pay for them :-)

And just to throw in some silly pedantry, the M109 is a self-propelled howitzer, not a tank. :)

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#175

Post by nkmnz »

machinerychorus wrote: post #26
postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

I was tangentially related to the covid app stuff so I can offer some insight there: most of those apps weren't built by the state. Google provided an open-source "base app" that could be customized by the states, but most states hired third-party contractors to build an app for them. I've worked in public sector and this is typical. the states can't open source it because they don't own it, they just pay a third-par…

The problem is that most people confuse „small government“ with „small society“. I want the smallest government possible, but strong institutions outside of the governments direct controls and even stronger individuals. Open sourcing governmental software makes the government smaller compared to private institutions and individuals, because it puts them in the position to criticize the gov and compete with it in a meritocratic way.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#176

Post by brnt »

toolz wrote: post #152
machinerychorus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was tangentially related to the covid app stuff so I can offer some insight there: most of those apps weren't built by the state. Google provided an open-source "base app" that could be customized by the states, but most states hired third-party contractors to build an app for them. I've worked in public sector and this is typical. the states can't open source it because they don't own it, they just pay a third-par…

> This is touted as "small govt", but it really just makes things less efficient. The total number of people involved stays the same. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you suggesting big government is more efficient than small government? If so I wonder if there are some good examples of that, because previously I wasn't aware anyone would ever argue that could be the case.

Small government has always been about business being able to make money doing outsourced big gov tasks. Look at who seeded that debate, it's big capital funded thinktanks.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#177

Post by jasonkester »

postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

I’m having trouble understanding why anybody would expect that to be the case.

I have, for example, built things for government in the past. They paid for some code that I wrote and now they can use it as they like. But, (as with any client), they don’t have the right to turn around and give it to you.

If you want that code, I’m happy to sell it to you. But, again, you’re not allowed to sell it on or give it away.

Because that’s how software consulting works.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#178

Post by bryanrasmussen »

jasonkester wrote: post #177
postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

I’m having trouble understanding why anybody would expect that to be the case. I have, for example, built things for government in the past. They paid for some code that I wrote and now they can use it as they like. But, (as with any client), they don’t have the right to turn around and give it to you. If you want that code, I’m happy to sell it to you. But, again, you’re not allowed to sell it on or give it away. Be…

I'm not understanding what you said, do you mean you had built the code before and you licensed it to the government, or in the contract you wrote to the government you specified that you owned the code that you were delivering, every time I've written code for people who've paid me on a project basis they can do what they want with the code afterwards, including give it away.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#179

Post by jasonkester »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #178
jasonkester wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m having trouble understanding why anybody would expect that to be the case. I have, for example, built things for government in the past. They paid for some code that I wrote and now they can use it as they like. But, (as with any client), they don’t have the right to turn around and give it to you. If you want that code, I’m happy to sell it to you. But, again, you’re not allowed to sell it on or give it away. Be…

I'm not understanding what you said, do you mean you had built the code before and you licensed it to the government, or in the contract you wrote to the government you specified that you owned the code that you were delivering, every time I've written code for people who've paid me on a project basis they can do what they want with the code afterwards, including give it away.

You could certainly ask for the right to redistribute the code when we were negotiating the contract. But that would get you a much larger quote since now you wouldn’t just be buying the software, you’d also have to be paying for every potential future sale of something similar.

I can’t imagine that the government (or anybody really) would do that.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#180

Post by Semaphor »

KarlKemp wrote: post #105
postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

The German version is at https://github.com/corona-warn-app . It was expensive (18 million Euros I believe, but may be wrong). But other than that, it was excellent from start to finish. First release a few weeks after the API was available. The source was divided into logical components of more or less perfect size, it was straightforward, well commented, responsive to PRs, worked, and had no security issues as far…

And there is even a fork on F-Droid that works without google framework only requiring microg, working on older devices, and having some minor additional features: https://f-droid.org/packages/de.corona.tracing/
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