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Hello V-Lang

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Re: Hello V-Lang

#171

Post by hackersreboot »

amedvednikov wrote: post #19

If you'd like to check out more about V, here's the GitHub repo: https://github.com/vlang/v Very thorough documentation: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md One of the coolest latest projects is the Vinix OS, written fully in V: https://github.com/vlang/vinix It's a POSIX OS that already runs libc, bash, GCC, g++, and Doom.

I actually did. I analysed as much as I could with major exams over my head. I am planning to try the os later. Also I would love if you could contact me at arpan@hackersreboot.tech for some talk.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#172

Post by Tozen »

hackersreboot wrote: post #167
Tozen wrote: post #139

Why was this misspelled? Shouldn't it be Vlang ( https://vlang.io/ ), not V-Lang?

Ok, so I am the author of the article and I wanted to put it as "V" but wasn't differentiating for example in search and "Vlang" just didn't feel good.

I kind of get what you mean, but the common practice is to spell it as Vlang, which other languages that are referred to by short names do too. Like Go, becomes Golang as oppose to Go-lang. But, we all have our preferences. Who knows, it might catch on to refer to it as V-Lang. It's your prerogative to do as you like, and it was great that you created the article and are into programming.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#173

Post by Tozen »

vlang1dot0 wrote: post #123
bheadmaster wrote: post #20

Here are the summarized V features for anyone who dislikes salestalk: - small binaries and fast compilation - cross-platform support - cross-compilation - cross-platform drawing library (GDI+/Cocoa Drawing, OpenGL) - native GUI toolkits (V-UI) - value types - auto-free engine that adds necessary free() commands - C transpilation (both ways, allegedly emits human-readable C) - C foreign function interface ("V can call…

The reason V is so controversial is that it separates nearly everyone who looks at it into two diametrically opposed groups: those who have some experience or knowledge of programming language design and implementation and those who do not. The first group are generally the "detractors" and view every concession made to the impossible set of features as a reinforcement of their belief that the language cannot work as…

First, nobody should take what you have posted as an honest assessment, because your username is for the explicit purpose of trolling. Running around with the name "vlang1dot0", demonstrates a commitment to being a hardcore troll and spreading misinformation.

As with any attempt at propaganda and misinformation, you are taking elements of truth and then greatly distorting it to fit your agenda. Which is possibly to hurt your competition, because of developing or being heavily invested in a competing language. It would be much more honest to come out and say what your preferred language is and what your involvement with it is, than to put on a troll costume and do hit posts.

> ...Because of this dichotomy, there cannot be completely objective discussion about the language.

No, you have created a false dichotomy. You can not be objective, because of your bias and possible investment in other languages.

> Consider, if it really was so easy to build a language with the speed of C, the ease of use of Python and the simplicity of Go, why haven't those languages with orders of magnitude more funding simply done so?

This is a straw man argument. It would be like someone saying, "If the car was really such a good idea, why wasn't it invented by the Egyptians back in 1000 BC? They had plenty of gold and engineers."

Programming languages are built upon and borrow from each other. It is the prior existence of C, Python, and Go that something new which is blended from various elements of each, with various new concepts added, can be created. Thus we can have Vlang and various other newer languages.

-Cross compilation

You didn't refute that Vlang can do it, but rather it doesn't meet your preferences. So damn what it makes use of C compilers, for now or as an option in the future? So have other languages. Not to mention, Vlang has very strong interop with C, to begin with.

And they are working on the native backend, which is producing results, and will only get better. It must also be kept in mind how young Vlang is as a language, which started from 2019. So its level of progress and popularity is arguably amazing, and has surpassed a number of its rivals. It is asinine to compare a language of such young age to those from say 2008 or the 1990s, who at the same comparative stages were less advanced.

- native GUI toolkits

Again, you are spouting out your preferences. Furthermore, Vlang has a number of GUI wrapper libraries. Such as: vsdl/vsdl2, vig (ImGui), vnk (nuklear), viup (IUP), etc... If a person doesn't want to use the VUI (written in V), they can hop over to a bunch of others.

- Autofree

The developers have repeatedly said that it wouldn't be ready until 0.3 of the language. It exists and functions, but they are working on improving it, which is not anything unusual at this stage. People can disable it with -noautofree, and do manual memory management. There is -prealloc too. There is also GC (-gc boehm).

The developers have stated there would be a few memory management options, of which there will be at least -autofree and -gc boehm. Not sure why certain people are getting their panties all twisted, when a number of other programming languages also have multiple memory management options, to include those languages having had all kinds of development problems and they still have issues.

- GitHub Issues

This is probably the more ludicrous part of your post. All popular programming languages on GitHub will have a long list of issues. The more popular, the more you will see. For example, Rust has nearly 8,000 OPEN issues. If someone listed them all on HN, would they win any points?

The true point is that issues submitted, are those that contributors and developers work on to resolve. Using an open issue as a reference to attempt to prove a language is somehow deficient is very, very deceptive. That's a problem they are fixing and will usually fix (sooner or later), or discover it's not really an issue as user error. More importantly, is how useful those users, supporters, and contributors feel the language is. That's why Vlang is constantly gaining in popularity, despite angry detractors and competitors.

Troll hit jobs will simply not stop Vlang, and just reflects an odd desperation in wishing it would. Whatever programming language that you prefer or are developing, it should be able to stand on its own merits, without the need for trolling others.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#175

Post by Tozen »

vlang1dot0 wrote: post #148
vlang1dot0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you point to the C2V source?

So, you're saying C2V is closed source then? Which is exactly what Alex said isn't true.

There is a difference between not releasing the source yet versus closed source. Often, closed source refers to not ever going to open the source, including commercial interests. In regards to not yet releasing the source, things can be in the process of being worked on, made ready for public review, or being organized where other programmers can more sensibly contribute to the source.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#176

Post by Tozen »

pxeger1 wrote: post #12

Previous discussons: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24481883 (144 points, 191 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 (191 points, 182 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19526924 (61 points, 101 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 (146 points, 137 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21296855 (123 points, 91 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

You chose threads primarily from 2019. We are now in 2022. So threads and comments from 3 years ago are mostly not relevant. Some threads are even prior to Vlang ever being released (March 2019 comments versus release date of language in June 2019). To include persistently claiming Vlang is vaporware, despite it now having over 90 releases (at nearly a new one per week pace) and being well documented in terms of language and modules.

https://github.com/vlang/v/releases (releases) https://modules.vlang.io/ (modules) https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md (documentation)

Re: Hello V-Lang

#177

Post by super_flanker »

vlang1dot0 wrote: post #123
bheadmaster wrote: post #20

Here are the summarized V features for anyone who dislikes salestalk: - small binaries and fast compilation - cross-platform support - cross-compilation - cross-platform drawing library (GDI+/Cocoa Drawing, OpenGL) - native GUI toolkits (V-UI) - value types - auto-free engine that adds necessary free() commands - C transpilation (both ways, allegedly emits human-readable C) - C foreign function interface ("V can call…

The reason V is so controversial is that it separates nearly everyone who looks at it into two diametrically opposed groups: those who have some experience or knowledge of programming language design and implementation and those who do not. The first group are generally the "detractors" and view every concession made to the impossible set of features as a reinforcement of their belief that the language cannot work as…

Thanks for taking time and explaining things around v's state of affairs.

Also I'd like to add that V's first feature, "no null" is a myth. V supports initializing a reference with 0, which is null/nil or whatever you call it.

I'm pretty sure v's author will not bother responding to a well laid out facts.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#178

Post by Tozen »

vlang1dot0 wrote: post #164
Tozen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the obvious trolling, much of this is your interpretation and what you want the developers of Vlang to say instead. Let's keep in mind that others can have different interpretations, opinions, or things they like to nitpick about too. The developers of Vlang aren't obligated to you or me in any way, so are entitled to type their perspectives on their website. The real deal are the many users, supporters, and…

So no actual response to objective criticism just "my interpretation is things are going well so they can claim anything they want"? Wow, what a compelling argument you make! If you want to look at GitHub, sure let's do that. I see perhaps 5 regularly active contributors, many more who seem to have left the community, and a downward slope of commit activity starting in April 2020. Hardly some vast hub of activity lik…

Probably, it would be good to do other things than trying to troll or presenting distorted information. It is very easy to go to GitHub and check Insights (https://github.com/vlang/v/pulse). Vlang's commits and additions are comparable and on pace with other languages in a similar category such as Odin, Crystal, Zig, Nim... Check the GitHub Insights for those other languages, and have the truth revealed.

Maybe it's an impatient rival developer thing, but I'm not quite sure what your laser focused fixation with autofree is about. Its the V developers and contributors prerogative to work on it as they see fit. If you don't use Vlang, then why in the world are you so desperately worried about it?

> Given autofree has been practically untouched in 6 months...

A search on Vlang's GitHub for issues both open and closed shows contributor and developer activity regarding autofree within the last 6 months, to include the last week. Sample- https://github.com/vlang/v/pull/13823

> At the current rate of progress...

Can you show us the HN troll accounts and incessant badgering of the Nim developers, who started in 2008 and didn't achieve 1.0 until 2019 (11 years later)?

Where are the HN troll posts under zig1dot0 about Zig not being 1.0, despite starting in 2016 (3 years before Vlang)?

How about with Odin? Surely there are HN posts by odin1dot0, who is incessantly complaining to Odin developers and fans about slow progress? Since they starting in 2016, but have yet to reach 1.0 either.

Right, not trolling them, but have a vendetta against Vlang for whatever mischievous reasons. Is it jealousy over supporters, funding, or publicity? Who knows. The problem is the trolling is very obvious and excessive. Just give it a rest and allow the fans and supporters of Vlang their peace. Enjoy whatever programming language you are using or developing and don't sweat Vlang so much.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#179

Post by hackersreboot »

Tozen wrote: post #172
hackersreboot wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so I am the author of the article and I wanted to put it as "V" but wasn't differentiating for example in search and "Vlang" just didn't feel good.

I kind of get what you mean, but the common practice is to spell it as Vlang, which other languages that are referred to by short names do too. Like Go, becomes Golang as oppose to Go-lang. But, we all have our preferences. Who knows, it might catch on to refer to it as V-Lang. It's your prerogative to do as you like, and it was great that you created the article and are into programming.

Yeah, still very new to all this, also it was my first posting on HN and I haven't actually received any meaningful comments on any platform or any guidance about the conventions and stuff. If you check out the article there is only 1 comments there while here it is about 170 now so I am learning a lot.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#180

Post by hackersreboot »

sgt wrote: post #31

Great. We rewrote our backend into D, then Arc, then into Go, and most recently into Rust. If V-lang is as good as it sounds, we'll need to ditch thousands of lines of pristine Rust code. HN-driven development methodology really has no mercy. /s

I personally think Rust is one of the best and the most unique language in its form and will grow to play a far greater role in the dev world. I am just beginning to learn it and am most fascinated by it. Just published about "V" because new and independent ones like it also need our love and support to grow and mature as others have.
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