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Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

forum.snapcraft.io

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Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#171

Post by stjohnswarts »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #11
bitcharmer wrote: post #10

I love Ubuntu, it's been my daily driver for over a decade now but if they continue with going against the community on this nonsense this will be a strong indication for people like me that an era has come to an end and it's time to move on. It used to be a community focused distro. This bs feels outright user-hostile.

Just switched to Fedora about a week ago because I was getting fed up with user hostile Ubuntu bs, I like it a lot.

I don't like that you have to update it so often. I like the idea of an LTS. On systems I want to update often I just put arch on them so there is never major breakage that I can't roll back easily with snapper.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#172

Post by stjohnswarts »

mikro2nd wrote: post #107
Thaxll wrote: post #18

I think auto updates are ok but not for everything, client side app are ok to auto update the rest not so much.

No. No they're not OK. Sometimes I am forced to live on eye-wateringly expensive bandwidth (because dodgy rural DSL and trees falling) and I'd go broke letting things autoupdate during those times.

I don't understand this remark. They charge you more when trees/systems are down? Are you talking about using some backup service (like your cellphone) or something? Your comment is hard to reason out without information like that.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#173

Post by stjohnswarts »

rsolva wrote: post #132
MiddleEndian wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many technically illiterate users don't like forced automatic updates either. Having your software behave one way one day and another the next day is user-hostile. The only people it helps are organizations that wish to lower support costs.

I have heard disturbing stories from tech-illiterate windows users complaining about forced upgrades, reboots—even fullscreen Office365 ads. It's a pain to be "the computer guy" for windows users. They need help constantly and for silly things that has changed place or behaviour. I also do support for tech-illiterate linux users on Fedora and they never call or have trouble. It just works, even with auto-updated flat…

Yeah ton's of memes out there by windows users who were forced to upgrade 5 minutes before a meeting or something. It's a real issue. It's why I leave my office laptop on all night, so they can do their stupid forced upgrades in the middle of the night like they schedule them. I have too many meeting to wait for a 30minute - 1 hour update popping up unexpectedly.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#174

Post by stjohnswarts »

elmerfud wrote: post #29

Where Microsoft leads with its bad ideas Linux distros will follow blindly. The sad thing is those who decried a Microsoft for their evilness of doing things like this are the same ones that have turned right around and started defending it in the name of "users are stupid so give them less freedom".

more like "ubuntu will follow blindly" other big guys like redhat, suse, etc have more sane defaults.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#175

Post by kd913 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #55
jabiko wrote: post #50

We use microk8s on our dev clusters and its really great when an automatic upgrade goes sideways. Also using channels didn't help since even a minor upgrade managed to break our setup once. The last half year or so went ok, but not being able to stop automatic upgrades is ridiculous. In general I like opinionated software, but sometimes it goes to far.

Canonical currently has their head in the sand for how Linux users at large see it. If you try to talk about how Linux distributions don’t like it, they’ll just say, “but Snap is available on all the distributions” or some crap cop-out. I had a long forum thread about all the issues people are complaining about half a decade ago. They wouldn’t budge, and still won’t budge.

Linux users are some of the most opinionated people. At the end of the day, money/convenience matters. Why exactly would they pay attention to you when they have their own priorities?

Snaps reduce reduce their maintenance burdens, and they have the stats themselves for how popular they are. They are by and far more used than flatpaks from what I remember from the video by Martin Wimpress.

Oh and they have third party buy-in from software vendors like Mozilla, Microsoft, VLC, JetBrains, Spotify, slack etc...

Why would they budge?

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#176

Post by broknbottle »

oofbey wrote: post #151
okasaki wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that sometimes the push is external. A few days ago Canonical announced that they would switch Firefox to snap because that's the only way Mozilla will allow them to redistribute it.

Having a user app like Firefox force autoupdate is not that bad IMHO. Having server infrastructure components update themselves automatically can be disastrous. This caught me by surprise, painfully. Snap for GUI apps, okay, fine. Snap for system infrastructure, no thank you.

It's bad when the user is actively using the application and snapd decides to update the Firefox snap and cause issues.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#177

Post by kd913 »

gpspake wrote: post #108

Wow. This thread isn't controversial at all. I haven't found a single comment making a case for Snap. It seems to be universally disliked - at least by this crowd.

It's disliked by the same Linux purists who complain constantly about systemd. Bit odd how the same community hates Canonical considering how it's now the only FOSS commercial entity considering Red Hat was bought by IBM. The community treats them worse than Microsoft for no good reasons. If you don't like snap, fine, use flatpak, apt, AppImages. Nobody is forcing you on ubuntu systems, but they spend their effort and time whining here.

I like snaps, I use them for everything I can.

- They are better confined than flatpaks, and come with a permission based model. Hence why there are some rougher edges. I appreciate the increased security.

- I appreciate the ability that when I remove a snap, the entire thing is removed with no littering.

- They are significantly easier to distribute on ubuntu than dealing with ppas or launchpad.

- They are a one-stop shop for finding the software I care about. I don't need to hit the command line, or add another repo.

- They save time and money because devs only need to support 1 base.

- I can install software on ubuntu without giving root privileges in a self-contained fashion.

Some common complains:

- The store isn't open sourced. Well yes, that is because they wasted time from the same whiny people over launchpad. Nobody else runs and supports launchpad. Hence nobody else would frankly bother running the snap store.

- People can't run their own store. Well yes, that is because Canonical learned from a decade ago with the security nightmare that is PPAs. Yea, it is a bad idea giving devs root access to 100k worth of machines to run arbitrary scripts. Also really bad UX.

-It's slow to startup with theming issues. Well the situation has improved 100x since a few years ago, and also I run an ssd, 32gb of RAM and a 3600, I don't really care for a few seconds in launch time.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#178

Post by anotherevan »

So... I have been using Ubuntu 18.04LTS for my half-dozen servers and was planning to replace them with 22.04LTS later this year. Bad idea?

I've tended to use every second LTS release, replacing with new (cloud) servers during the overlap in support periods. I use Ansible to configure.

Should I be considering Rocky or straight Debian instead? Something else?

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#179

Post by gjsman-1000 »

kd913 wrote: post #175
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canonical currently has their head in the sand for how Linux users at large see it. If you try to talk about how Linux distributions don’t like it, they’ll just say, “but Snap is available on all the distributions” or some crap cop-out. I had a long forum thread about all the issues people are complaining about half a decade ago. They wouldn’t budge, and still won’t budge.

Linux users are some of the most opinionated people. At the end of the day, money/convenience matters. Why exactly would they pay attention to you when they have their own priorities? Snaps reduce reduce their maintenance burdens, and they have the stats themselves for how popular they are. They are by and far more used than flatpaks from what I remember from the video by Martin Wimpress. Oh and they have third party…

So according to a Snap developer, Snap is more popular on Ubuntu, the only distribution that comes with it preloaded. That does not say anything about Snap’s popularity.

Vendor interest they have, community interest they lack. And if it continues, lack of community interest will result in a lack of vendor interest.

Re: Disabling automatic refresh for Snap from store

#180

Post by RobotCaleb »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #172
mikro2nd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. No they're not OK. Sometimes I am forced to live on eye-wateringly expensive bandwidth (because dodgy rural DSL and trees falling) and I'd go broke letting things autoupdate during those times.

I don't understand this remark. They charge you more when trees/systems are down? Are you talking about using some backup service (like your cellphone) or something? Your comment is hard to reason out without information like that.

They're saying that sometimes their internet goes out either because of their rural situation or because trees fall and knock out copper lines. When that happens, they have to switch to an expensive internet solution.
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