It's great that he is still up for working! At risk of getting flamed... It's tricky I think because even if he can learn to program to a suitable standard, I think the reality will be that people will see him as a "junior" but you will have a different working dynamic since it is easier for an e.g. 30 year old to coach someone who is younger if they are doing it wrong but could be tricky trying to coach an older per…
Also thinking out loud... I started teaching my self to code w/ the intent of getting a coding job at age 38, and I got my first coding job at 40. Breaking into coding was brutal for me. I couldn't get taken seriously as a junior. I just had to keep grinding until I was good enough that someone would take me seriously as a mid-level. The way I did that was go super deep on learning Ruby super well. Then I found a com…
Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
171–180 of 186 posts
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#172get a 4-day work week, and land at a BIG company, maybe - b/c they're sane to work at. they may be killing us all, but they won't kill you quickly as an employee.
i tend to think modern-day web-oriented (js) programming is awful, but i guess it's personal preference -- but i'd just generally advise try to find something he thinks he might like.
some other comments mentioned old-school tech - i think that could be a good idea. i don't know that it has to be or should be COBOL or craziness like that -- java, middle languages like pl/sql -- dba-type stuff.
totally doable if he has the energy for it.
and if he has someone to guide him, even better.
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#173Some anecdotes: - One time I posted on HN that I am willing to tutor people from Gaza for free (am Israeli). Got contacted by a Nigerian man (over 50+ years) instead. He successfully did FCC and a few other courses and got a job (with minimal mentoring) in the field. - One time I had a student at a program I volunteer in for a minority group who was almost 70, they successfully completed the program and got a job. -…
Clarification needed please: What's "FCC"? Thanks.
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Partially through trial and error, partially from other people, partially from books, etc. It's not so much that "these young kids won't listen" that's annoying, but this mantra of "we're all here to learn from each other - that's how we grow!". Except... if it's me. Then you choose not to learn from me. Or older people in general. Just drop the "feel good we're all a team" facade, because it doesn't represent what y…
Youth is dumb. When I was in my 20's, my mentors were all 50+. And, quite often, I would have to hit the wall before the good advice they gave me made sense. I realized later that I was really irritating to them at many points. It took me, like, 4 times hearing "You might want to think about that" from my main mentor before I started mentally translating that to "Dumbass. You're about to hit the wall. Again." I am no…
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#175Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#176I think if he needs encouragement in order to do it, he probably isn’t going to do it. The only way it’ll work at that age is if he’s overwhelmingly passionate about it.
Sounds like he’d be better suited to starting his own company in which he can code and do whatever he wants. Doesn’t have to worry about anyone giving him a job, meanwhile hopefully all those business skills will come in useful.
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#177Make sure the machine and monitors don’t become a reason to stop the process of learning and doing.
Approach this as a series of goals and don’t expect overnight miracles.
Make copious notes. It could be useful to focus on programming for a particular field or set of applications, if he has core knowledge. For example, tools that could have helped him in his previous roles. Don’t worry if these aren’t original nor large.
Be organized but don’t let the organizing obscure the hands-on coding and use of the tools.
Find sympathetic people and groups, for support, mentoring, ideas, and reference. I suspect that he has developed good strategies for networking and communicating with people and groups. Now is the time to take advantage of those skills.
I know that he knows that he doesn’t feel like he’s 61 and that’s important. In my experience the roadblocks are erected by reacting to other peoples inevitable ageism. Ageism is real. But it’s not going away, so work around it and work with it.
Having groups to work with, and support each other helps immensely. So, approach programming as a member of a group and don’t try to do everything himself.
Languages and platforms? That’s a different discussion, and I’ll avoid the inevitable arguments in this open forum.
And document the process and journey. Make the documentation process part of the journey too, of course, and use the IDE and YouTrack to help manage this process too. Other people will want to know about these experiences.
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#178Advise him to prepare a budget to get started with a JetBrains All product pack subscription, and subscriptions to some ebook services for reference material and good quality source material. Make sure the machine and monitors don’t become a reason to stop the process of learning and doing. Approach this as a series of goals and don’t expect overnight miracles. Make copious notes. It could be useful to focus on progr…
Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?
#179Is this about finding work, or finding software/programming work. If your dad wants to find work, he's better of, in my opinion, to stick to his field. He held considerable positions in the past, what did change about his industry that's making it hard now to find work?
The market for Software developers is hot right now; but it is quite difficult to find a job as a junior. Add to that ageism and companies are really picky when hiring.
Here are things your father is probably good at: Accounting, Taxes, Employment, Customer/People relations, Signing contracts (maybe gov. contracts), Figuring commercial real-estate & local regulation, Getting a credit line, Handling a lawsuit/the court, etc... All this stuff is experience a junior dev doesn't have and probably doesn't need.
By starting as a junior dev, your father is throwing all of that out of the window. What he needs to do (if he's looking for work), is to figure out how to branch into some industry that can make use of this knowledge.