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The end of the nice GTK button

blog.brixit.nl

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Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#171

Post by lwkl »

malermeister wrote: post #115
jeroenhd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that they don't care about the themes their end users pick, though. You can theme your app just fine. They just want operating systems using their software (with their logos, trademarks and support links) to stop shipping their custom themes by default. They just don't want Canonical or Fedora to ship a theme that makes all applications that didn't come bundled look like shit. If you like the Windows 95 Hotdog S…

But end users use the same mechanism to theme their apps as vendors and that one is being removed.

So what? Why should they continue to support some minor feature if it costs them a lot of resources and they think it's not worth it because it doesn't really fit their project?

If you have a feature that is used by one customer out of thousands but it's causing problems at every update you push out. It might be better to remove the feature and fire the customer, than to keep supporting it no matter what.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#172

Post by akdor1154 »

jms55 wrote: post #100

A lot of comments in this thread are negative. As a developer using GTK4 and libadwaita, and as a user that uses gnome, I really like the changes. GTK4 brings some much needed changes, and the major bugs like listview scrolling being broken or bad text rendering on non-hidpi displays suck, but both have people working on fixing them. Libadwaita is a huge improvement, and makes it way easier to build good apps. As for…

> As for themes, I quite like the new libadwaita theme, and prefer it to the default GTK theme. You're free to disagree, but you can't say your opinion is correct, nor can I.

I agree... but the gnome devs are directly telling me my opinion is incorrect, by removing the ability for me to change my apps i use to a theme I like.

Oh wait sorry, i guess i should have said gnome's apps.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#173

Post by malermeister »

lwkl wrote: post #171
malermeister wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But end users use the same mechanism to theme their apps as vendors and that one is being removed.

So what? Why should they continue to support some minor feature if it costs them a lot of resources and they think it's not worth it because it doesn't really fit their project? If you have a feature that is used by one customer out of thousands but it's causing problems at every update you push out. It might be better to remove the feature and fire the customer, than to keep supporting it no matter what.

They're not customers though. They're an open source community. Not everything is a business and this is an anti-community move.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#174

Post by traverseda »

malermeister wrote: post #151
jraph wrote: post #89

It seems like KDE and Plasma is the place where look and feel is constantly but incrementally refined; we've been saved from this flat design trend so far and things keep looking pleasant and modern and being usable. We know they care, and have great attention to details because that's documented weekly [1]. I find the Breeze theme really well done and its GTK port, Brise, is also very nice, to the point Gnome looks…

How's KDE/Plasma with touch these days? I'm running GNOME on my Surface right now because it does pretty well with both Desktop and Tablet modes, but I'm pretty unhappy with the at times patronizing philosophy behind the project.

The biggest complaint from steam deck users seems to be the virtual keyboard isn't reliable, which is a pretty big issue.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#175

Post by jancsika »

userbinator wrote: post #123
warning26 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back when it was just programmers you could tell a button was a button, a tab was a tab and we didn't hide basic functionality behind a swipe gesture or long press that users were supposed to just know. Keep in mind that programmers also gave us this: http://www.martin-achern.de/wgetgui/images/linux_wgetgui.jpg People across all disciplines are capable of making poor design choices

Keep in mind that programmers also gave us this You're basically proving the point. That is so much clearer and obvious to use than the screenshots in the original article, and it doesn't treat you like an idiot.

Were you raised in the desert by a cactus or something? Because there is nothing clear nor obvious to me about that motif word salad.

Ah, I can just feel it failing to pop up a tooltip when I mouse over the "spider" option!

I can also feel the entire window disappearing when I click "START wget." Is that what happens? Maybe not, but that was par for the course on a lot of those motif GUIs.

And I can definitely feel how the growing information density was even frustrating the poor dev. "Load sett.", "Save sett.", ah fuck it... "AG"

And again, feeling the disappointment as I mouse over "AG" and get nothing...

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#176

Post by kjeetgill »

ghosty141 wrote: post #99
SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #15

I agree 100% with the author, the old GTK button was gorgeous, it will be missed. > I have had to explain to people tons of times that the random word in the UI somewhere in an application is actually a button they can press to invoke an action. This is one of my biggest complaints with the super flat modern designs. Many widgets lost their skeuomorphic depth, which encoded a lot if visual information (the clickabili…

I too hate the material design kind of flatness. For me, only apple somehow gets UI right (at least for me) and it feels very intuitive for me while also looking very good. The new "flat" design that pops up everywhere sometimes just feels like a lazy version of UI design, where you basically don't need proper styles anymore and just make everything b/w with maybe a border here and there.

My understanding of material design is that it tries not to be too flat. Material design reduces the 3d roundedness and gradients of many elements but still relies heavily on drop shadows to indicate hierarchy and overlapping.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#177

Post by akdor1154 »

You know what? This shouldn't be so bad. I should just be able to change theme to one i like.

However, because gnome no longer respects their users' opinions, there is no way to change it.

I mean fuck, if i wanted to use a Mac i'd just use a Mac.

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#178

Post by MichaelBurge »

azinman2 wrote: post #127
hiccuphippo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem Gnome, and Microsoft, have is they keep throwing money at designers. So designers keep making designs for the sake of designing. They should stop designing, stick to the design they already have and only do incremental updates when new widgets come out.

It's not like everything was perfect in the past and so we're done. Far from it. Even beyond that, the world is changing. New needs, new expectations, new styles in design. Just like we wouldn't expect cars to be frozen in time in the 1950s, we shouldn't expect UI/UX to be either. Linux DE's have never had a particularly well thought out, well designed look. There's been a lot of themes that people create to mimic ot…

> New needs, new expectations, new styles in design.

The article focus on the settings control panel. What new needs and expectations does the new settings control panel in 2022 have compared to 2010?

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#179

Post by hackmiester »

eptcyka wrote: post #122
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend far too long in GTK apps looking for the right menu to do basic stuff. It's like someone once saw an iPad from across a room and tried to implement what they remembered of it.

Funny, I usually have the same opinion of iOS user interfaces.

You would benefit from the “Button Shapes” option in accessibility! It underlines or outlines text-only “buttons.”

Re: The end of the nice GTK button

#180

Post by skykooler »

azinman2 wrote: post #42

So basically the new GTK is iOS but without the professional designers behind it. What I cannot understand is how Canonical, Red Hat, or some rich SV person hasn’t thrown money at the problem and hired a big wig design firm or person to overhaul it all. Johnny Ive is now even available (if he’d take the project). But even going thru a site like dribbble there are so many amazing designers out there. To me it would be…

That's sort of what happened with ElementaryOS, isn't it?
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