Keywords “to allow.” You still don’t own your device or have control over it, they are merely giving permission to some of their serfs
What are you referring to exactly
Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
171–180 of 392 posts
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this argument. Spotify is a service connecting listeners to the artists and infrastructure and development of said service has its cost whereas Google/Apple charge fees for the app store which Spotify subscription does not require.
Apple/Google app stores are a service connecting users to app creators, and all the points about Spotify also apply to Apple and Google. In the case of Apple, they literally created the entire market, from the CPUs all the way up. If 30% is too much, publish your content as a web app. If you want to play in the walled garden, pay the cover charge.
I think the biggest difference is that Spotify isn't a monopoly at the end of the day - it's a popular service. A lot of people still use different methods to listen to music like YouTube, iTunes, bandcamp and a plethora of others. If you, as a band, want to make money on your music you aren't required to do business through spotify, it's a choice that most people make because it's free money.
On the other hand if you want to write an app for a mobile device you're, realistically, either going to write it for Android or iOS. On the Android side you can distribute it as an apk assuming you can handle the cost of writing self-updating code - but on the iOS side you're hooped. Mobile devices are a part of modern life, the fact that one company dominates the market (and another company takes the remainder) leaves the market extremely unhealthy.
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#173Keywords “to allow.” You still don’t own your device or have control over it, they are merely giving permission to some of their serfs
That's weird; the side-loaded apps I'm running seem to disagree.
I mean, I guess I'm not cutting my own silicon wafers in my chip fab in the basement so who knows what's really in the radio circuitry, but this is certainly enough ownership for my use-case.
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#174This is one of the most boring and insignificant things I've ever seen on HN. The amount of intense discussion it's getting is very funny.
I would consider it a much bigger event if Costco announced they'd take American Express.
(No judgment against anyone who finds this event fascinating! You all clearly know more than me...)
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Last time I checked (admittedly a long time on Apple, as a developer, I couldn't refund and cancel a subscription for my customers. They have to go through Apple to do that. Not a great experience.
It’s usually fairly simple though. You (as a dev) don’t have to front the cost for support folks to handle it.
It's not a pleasant process for consumers at all, in my experience. I'm not a big fan of hanging around in awkward support chats or calls for things that can usually be resolved with an email.
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple and Google are providing a service, so why exactly should they not get a cut of revenue? To be clear, 30% is too much, but aside from payment handling and taking on fraud risk as a result of that (3-4% is generally the industry standard for card not present transactions), they provide a subscription management/payment API for IAPs, as well as app packaging and distribution, reviews, etc. That certainly is worth…
Apple and Google (and others) also allow loading credit using physical cards that you purchase at retail stores. I believe the stores get around a 5-10% margin on these, i.e. you buy a $100 gift card, and the store only pays Apple/Google $90-95. There is a definite cost to all these so 0% is unreasonable. Epic is trying to be the "good" games distribution store and they reportedly take a 12% cut. Something around the…
Unfortunately Epic can't honestly comment on what cut they're taking while their storefront loses immense amounts of money[1] - I agree that a lower percentage is probably a lot more reasonable but I don't think EGS can serve as that example.
1. https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-has-sunk-dollar500m-into-the-ep...
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#177> Together, we’ll work to innovate in how consumers make in-app purchases, deliver engaging experiences across multiple devices, and bring more consumers to the Android platform. I wanna vomit. The fix is just deleting 3 lines of your policies. The world will innovate on its own. No need to limit innovation to a couple companies who are big enough to negotiate.
agreed. both of these companies --google and apple-- have leadership that see this as a hill to die on. Apple looks ready to go to the guillotine for the right to gouge startups, while Google seems more amicable to try obfuscation tactics to keep their hand in the cookie jar. my opinion: a couple million dollars invested in F-Droid might do the world a whole lot of good. if you were say, epic, you might consider an a…
I keep wondering why Epic (and Valve for that matter) haven't tried bringing their own stores to Android.
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. Paypal
Ok, what if you don’t use paypal. Or if one app uses pay pal, but another wants you to use some other payment solution. You’re still stuck registering to new services and sharing your CC info. So now you also have to remember what service is used by whatever app you are trying to cancel billing for.
I believe that we'll see a centralized subscription cancellation service for credit and debit cards before too long.
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#179As a user, why would I choose this? I only see a benefit to developers for this, but from a user prospective going with another system is a downgrade. Assuming google works like Apple (correct me if I am wrong), disabling a subscription should be able to happen from a central location with a click or 2. If I instead go with the billing through a company not only do they now have my credit card information, but I have…
> As a user, why would I choose this
Because I don't even have Google in my phone?
(No idea whether Spotify will support that, but if they wanted they could.)
Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing
#180This is smart and what Apple should've done. Apple is clearly beholden to the massive cash cow that the App Store has become. Apple's attempts at complying with various orders are that their cut should be 27% and the payment processor can have 3%. That's ridiculous and is going to get them into trouble. You see this pattern repeatedly and people will bring up things like the Pareto Principle or argue it's better to s…
App Store is 15% for developers making up $1 million a year. And I know you think this is somehow unique to Apple but it isn't. Channel costs have existed probably for centuries and are present in every industry.
Yep.
Traditionally printers/publishers took 85-95% of revenue from authors. Now perhaps you can argue that there's more costs involved in printing that running an app store, but an app store taking 30% sounds like a great deal in that context.