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Venting doesn’t work

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Re: Venting doesn’t work

#171

Post by danielovichdk »

This piece is all over the place. And i don't give the studies any value at all. Emotions cannot be measured as such, it's far more complex than that.

The underlying emotions caused by so-called venting is the thing which is interesting. Not the venting. It's a side effect of the real emotions underneath.

How you express your feelings towards yourself and others is what this is basically about.

Anger is most often a layer around grief or sorrow, so the anger-feeling is no more than a hint to that something else is going on deeper inside you[0].

[0] https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/peeling-the-onion-uncoverin...

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#172

Post by froh »

Llamamoe wrote: post #141
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #109

From my purely anecdotal experience with mentoring younger people, I've seen two main categories of venting: 1) Venting about frustrations by talking them through with someone who will listen. This forces people to put their frustrations into words and elucidate the narrative as they put it into words. This can not only help people identify their feelings and work through them, but it also forces people to decide wha…

I can't speak for everyone, but as a person with unmedicated ADHD and chronic fatigue, I feel pretty hostile to sentiments like this. In my experience, people who engage in #2 aren't - as you seem to be implying - people who are immature and lazy. A lot of the time they're people who struggle with the executive function necessary to actually change their life, who feel helpless and just want validation after having b…

Have you by chance ever considered your symptoms as dissociation? As in symptom of and underlying complex trauma which possibly was retraumtized aka reactivated later?

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#173

Post by watwut »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #109

From my purely anecdotal experience with mentoring younger people, I've seen two main categories of venting: 1) Venting about frustrations by talking them through with someone who will listen. This forces people to put their frustrations into words and elucidate the narrative as they put it into words. This can not only help people identify their feelings and work through them, but it also forces people to decide wha…

People in group 1 are seeking your validation and adjusting expressed feelings to what you want to hear. I know, because I was definitely like that. I would tell things that sound mature, to sound mature, but they were not the truth nor the reality.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#174

Post by mettamage »

mettamage wrote: post #121
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #8

Stop using small sample sized studies done on college campuses (n = 600, 178, 60) to push clickbait headline articles. Sounds like saying, "Don't cry when you're sad it Doesn't Work" How about let people do what they want? People vent because they want to know they aren't crazy or at fault. Not because they're trying to be calm or forget grievances.

Quite frankly, almost all psychological experiments are nonsense. After the replication crisis and other things (e.g. p-hacking) I simply can't be bothered to take the field seriously. I am beyond mad at the intellectual dishonesty many sciences have committed, social psychology in particular. I couldn't care less if it's an emergent failing of science. First principles were not followed, too few people cared, I can'…

I get the downvotes, I understand. I stand by it. I did a 3 year bachelor in it and some select master courses. There are still some theories that I use and find useful (self-determination theory and the five factor model if personality). I use those theories to make my life better. I use the theories of clinical psychology in very rare cases to tell people that a conversation with the doctor might help and won’t do any harm (in The Netherlands at least, in my experience). I can’t rely on clinical theories more than that though because the science of it is too vague.

Relying on psychological theories becomes problematic when the results are like normal studies (e.g. n = 100). A benign example: I am sure that the overjustification effect and self-determination theory have a link. In both bodies of literature I have never seen that link being investigated. If it would be investigated then there is a chance that the effect might be rebranded to something else in the name of precision. IMO it seems to be used too often as a euphemism to carve out your own research space.

Most cognitive biases are not substantiated enough to be relied upon as psychological theories (there was a good HN post about this as well). And for me, that’s problematic and something to get angry about because media but also university professors tell with too much confidence that these ideas are true and are the best knowledge we currently have. I found personally, that I can better rely on how humans work by using my own mind (a combination of common sense and experience for edge cases).

Science should be about uncovering what is true, as best as it possibly can. When it comes to the field of psychology, I feel that spirit has been mostly lost.

Feel free to disagree, but if you do then I ask you: have you tried to rely on psychological theories to improve your life and take their advice to heart? If not, then you might want to give it a try. And I hope that it has a more positive effect on you than it did on me. The effect on me has an amazing silver lining but ultimately it is very bitter sweet. Contrast this with computer science which was painful but ultimately delightfully sweet because most of what was taught can be programmed into a computer and is therefore true (at least, true on some level).

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#175

Post by Llamamoe »

froh wrote: post #172
Llamamoe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a person with unmedicated ADHD and chronic fatigue, I feel pretty hostile to sentiments like this. In my experience, people who engage in #2 aren't - as you seem to be implying - people who are immature and lazy. A lot of the time they're people who struggle with the executive function necessary to actually change their life, who feel helpless and just want validation after having b…

Have you by chance ever considered your symptoms as dissociation? As in symptom of and underlying complex trauma which possibly was retraumtized aka reactivated later?

I know exactly what is wrong with me. ADHD is not trauma, and my chronic fatigue is caused by airways so narrow that I cannot brestje if I straighten my neck. Even sleeping on a BiPAP, every single of my breaths is flow limited and I wake up(partially, not into wakefulness) because of it at least 7-15 times an hour.

Also, PTSD is the single disorder with the highest rates of underlying physiological risk factors. Even studies only screening for sleep apnea(most younger people present as UARS) find 30-70% prevalence, sleep disorders predict long term outcomes more accurately than the underlying traumatic events, and 2/3 of people do not develop PTSD or CPTSD following trauma.

Most likely, undiagnosed UARS/apnea is present in majority of people with chronic sleep issues, and together with other physiological risk factors(early insulin intolerance, severe gut dysbiosis, thyroid problems, others) makes up the bulk of psychological illness.

The reason why things look purely psychological is because the human mind revolves around spinning narratives explaining both own and other people's experiences in terms of events and decisions.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#176

Post by Llamamoe »

a_way_through wrote: post #170
Llamamoe wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is valid and I don't blame you. Over the years, I've experienced both sides of that coin, and nobody could be rationally expected to put up with it. But it sure hurts to have spent a decade unable to leave my house or take basic care of myself while continuously being told I'm exaggerating, making it up, just lazy, and worse, by people who couldn't even imagine just how bad my issues are. I don't think I will ev…

To echo one of the earlier posts: I’m in group 1, but only just. I have spent multiple months of my adult life barely leaving the house, unemployed, curled up in bed, in a seemingly endless cycle of anxiety and struggling to cope. I could literally feel my mind and body atrophying. Today I’m sort-of functional in that I show up to work every day, get most of my tasks done, and pay the bills. But I have very poor exec…

There were periods in my life when I coped better, but I have never been able to function in my life until I was lucky enough for a friend to just buy me a bilevel CPAP, at a point in life when I couldn't even go out and see a doctor anymore.

Even now, I can barely work 1-3 hours a few days per week, and not starve myself while waiting for a consultation with an orthognatic surgeon.

I am aware I could do better mentally, but at the end of the day, it's difficult to cope with being unable to achieve even simplest goals I set for myself, and the crippling loneliness of nobody believing that yeah, I'm really sick, really struggling, and really not managing very well.

If your EF impairments are unremitting, it's likely that you have an underlying physiological condition. Can I ask you about the status of your sleep, digestion, and presence of any chronic health complaints, however trifle(like chronic cough, waking up grumpy, or mild indigestion)?

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#177

Post by dharmit »

This kinda makes sense. I belong to the group of people that either vents or keeps ruminating in the head, while my wife is the opposite. I have suffered from occasional bouts of high blood pressure, while my wife doesn't face any such issues.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#178

Post by Blackstone4 »

Llamamoe wrote: post #155
Blackstone4 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see where you are coming from. At my work for instance, we will take on those with good people skills and the intelligence to learn the technical skills they are missing. We are reluctant to do it the other way round. We avoid those who have the technical skills but not the people skills because common wisdom and experience indicates it is much harder to teach the people skills… I would add that we are not equi…

This is valid and I don't blame you. Over the years, I've experienced both sides of that coin, and nobody could be rationally expected to put up with it. But it sure hurts to have spent a decade unable to leave my house or take basic care of myself while continuously being told I'm exaggerating, making it up, just lazy, and worse, by people who couldn't even imagine just how bad my issues are. I don't think I will ev…

Yeah mental health is really a catch-all term and it is much more complicated than that since the body and the mind are intertwined.

On people not listening nor understanding and making remarks about making it up or being lazy, it is hard when one's feelings and thoughts are not being validated.

Re: Venting doesn’t work

#179

Post by krageon »

Llamamoe wrote: post #156
bittercynic wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want to diminish the importance of your perspective in any way, only to add that some in the #1 camp are teetering on the brink of "able to take care of self" and not withholding help to be cruel, but because they think helping might pull them over the cliff, too. Wellness has big steps sometimes, and if you tumble down a step it may take a long time to get back up, and your ability to help yourself, and any…

I know. I do not blame people. At least not for that. What I blame people for is shaming, infantilizing, and treating people who struggle like nutjobs worthy only of ostracization for "refusing to accept help". Acting "whiny" is almost universally seen as extremely repulsive, and nobody would act this way if they weren't genuinely helpless - whether perpetually or only in the moment.

> nobody would act this way if they weren't genuinely helpless

That seems like too much of a generalisation. The issues you describe are real and that is not diminished by the fact that some people operate differently from what you imagine makes sense.

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