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YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

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Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference: in Bush v. Gore, Gore stepped aside for the good of the country, choosing to respect the institution of the courts even if the decision was dodgy. Trump is willing to burn down the institutions if it gives him an edge. The danger from the Trump narrative is not that die-hards are still grumbling, it's that the candidate doesn't seem to care about anything beyond his own interests.

eh, I think you're being pretty generous to Gore there. It was a long, drawn, fought out battle involving many lawsuits and lots of court coverage. In the end, when Gore had basically lost all of his challenges, he did "step aside" as far as dropping the lawsuits. But he continued to be a presence and he was still pretty bitter about it many years later (and brought it up nearly every time he was on TV). 6 years late…

I think the bigger difference is intent and actual facts (or non existence of any) behind the legal battles.

Trump simply does not live in reality and was enabled by lawyers abusing the legal system and attacking our institutions and literally attacking the government. On absolutely bonkers baseless accusations.

Gore had solid arguments, actually argued in court (didn't get thrown out with prejudice).

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#172
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always enjoy a well crafted comment like this in which the reader can't tell if the "authoritarianism" you are decrying is the former president trying to circumvent democracy or the censorship of people who are spreading that message. It allows you to collect upvotes from people on both sides thinking you are accusing the other of authoritarianism.

Either people have and live by principles or they don't. Part of our division is these sides you speak of, instructing their followers what to believe about individual topics.

Most atrocities in the world are committed by principled people. If they didn't have them they wouldn't care enough to commit them.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#173
The self-serving, inconsistent, intellectually-dishonest take that some have when they can't parrot provably false nonsense that is a mere Google search away from being debunked is really obnoxious.

I imagine many of these same people championed the rights of private businesses to decide who they did and didn't serve when it came to the infamous cakeshop [1] yet when Youtube or Twitter or Facebook makes exactly the same choice not to be a vehicle for disinformation, those same people lose their minds.

The point here is that the majority of people complaining about this aren't standing up for principle. They just want to get their way.

Live by the sword.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meming about and being afraid of WW3 is critical in containing/deescalating it. WW1 happened partly because nobody was afraid of it happenning.

> WW1 happened partly because nobody was afraid of it happenning. That is an interesting take on it. It may not be wrong, but I hadn't heard that before.

The "August Madness" is sometimes how this gets summed up. Novels/movies like All's Quiet on the Western Front make this point, too.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anything other than blind nationalism what we're calling "propaganda"...? The west absolutely has a role in the current state of the world. I don't think it's propaganda to acknowledge to situation is messy, and far more complex than "Russia is bad guy. Everyone else: good guy with no wrong doings." If anything, I feel as though the propaganda is strongly flowing the other way. I'm blown away by how quickly popula…

Most of the states in eastern Europe have been victimized by the Russians. All the countries which aren't partially controlled by Russians have tried to join the west (EU, NATO) to protect themselves from Russians. Countries which weren't enthusiastic enough about joining the west (Ukraine, Republic of Moldova, Georgia) are occupied by Russians. Russians are the orcs. It is literally as simple as that.

> Russians are the orcs. It is literally as simple as that.

Has it ever been as easy as that?...

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about where you see an institutionalized support on the left for election tampering claims, if you have any sources.

The 2000 Presidential election was attacked as illegitimate. I was watching the latter seasons of X-Files and Fox Mulder made a comment on 2000 elections, something like “that sounds about as reliable as our elections.” Plenty of folks, Howard Dean comes to mind, said they were straight up illegitimate. Even now many on the left insist it was a tie or something. This thing of “if you don’t win the elections, question…

The Bush v Gore fiasco is nothing like what is going on now: in 2000, in Florida, after all votes were tallied, the vote totals were so close a recount was legally mandated. During the recount a large number of ballots (actual, tangible evidence) were noted to have unclear undervotes and overvotes on them and were simply not counted. To compare this to the utterly baseless claims that lack even a scintilla of evidentiary support made by the current republican congress-folk is wacky.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#177
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past year I've switched from Google search to DDG; Google Maps to Apple Maps; Chromecast to Apple TV+; and Drive to Dropbox. I've held off on switching away from Gmail, but I'm switching to something else tonight. Suggestions welcome. By the way, not that I would support this at all (since I believe in free speech), but any idea if any speeches from Putin or Xi, or official government accounts from either co…

> I'm guessing not likely, given that they've really done nothing about ISIS accounts in the past This is inaccurate. The precedent for removing extremist content was set in the late 2000s when Facebook, Google, and Twitter started massive campaigns to investigate, report and remove Islamic extremist content on their platforms. A lot of legitimate non-extremist Islamic content and users got caught up in the censorshi…

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Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#178
Two points:

1. At what point will the information on the internet become so obfuscated that communication and "truth" is difficult to discern from "lies", if not presently today? Consider a person using the internet for the first time in order to find more information on a current event. How many sources (and what qualifies as one) does one have to traverse to weigh what one can consider to be "truthful enough"? Does a person have enough time to sift through all the available sources? To me, this is why media outlets filter their content, in order to protect their version of "truth". News outlets have always been biased, I don't see why YouTube or Twitter or FB cannot do the same thing.

2. Democracy will always be a thin line. There must be a point of "truth" of recording votes that the population is willing to accept. If the majority consistently challenges results or insists that the results are false, then democracy cannot exist, and another form of governmental control, possibly an evolution of authoritarianism or dictatorship, will take its place. Is that more acceptable than less-than-perfect democratic outcomes?

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#179

I really don't know why people think elections are not rigged. In my opinion all elections are rigged, why on earth would you risk losing power to the whim of the 'unwashed'. Both parties are two sides of the same coin and go back and forth to give everyone the illusion of choice. But when people mass together and demand social change, BLM ect its allowed to happened only until it starts working, then the authorities…

This is ridiculous hyperbole. Maybe what you’re saying is true in the US and several other places but there are absolutely unrigged elections elsewhere.

Then you could respond with how things are effectively systemically rigged through gerrymandering/news media/misinformation/propaganda/mind control/harassment/selective enforcement but that’s something else.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#180
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meming about and being afraid of WW3 is critical in containing/deescalating it. WW1 happened partly because nobody was afraid of it happenning.

According to Fiona Hill, we’re already in it. She doesn’t really indicate when we crossed the rubicon, but I guess there doesn’t always have to be a Franz Ferdinand moment? https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-...

I agree with Fiona: the clear nuclear threat was over the line. Freezing the assets of the central bank of Russia was also unimaginable a month ago (they are not Venezuela). That's why I used the words containing/deescalating.
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