Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

yanmaani.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 244 posts

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#171

Post by simongray »

yanmaani wrote: post #55
paxys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and Russia are at war in all but name. One of the key challenges in such situations is combating enemy propaganda, and so not letting the Russian state controlled broadcaster play in your country 24x7 is a no brainer. Plus it isn't just about the content. Running a TV network can be a massively profitable business, and in this case the money is going out of EU citizens' pockets and straight to the Russian governme…

No. They are not at war "in all but name". War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. The EU is not by any stretch at war with Russia, nominally or otherwise. The entire point of a free country is that people can handle the information. If not, why even bother?

Just guessing, but maybe you're in the US so it feels a little bit different to you...? This is what's it's like now in Denmark:

- We literally have 1 hour and 30 minutes of war updates before the half hour evening news every night.

- We've just delivered a huge batch of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.

- We've basically sanctioned 90% of what is possible to sanction from Russia with more sanctions coming every day, plus private companies getting ahead of themselves to exit Russia the fastest, e.g. Maersk.

- People are volunteering to fight in Ukraine and our government has officially OK'd it.

- We're already taking in refugees coming in buses from the Ukraine.

It sure feels like we're at war here in all but name.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#172

Post by arroz »

mardifoufs wrote: post #152
arroz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let people consume junk all they want. Just don’t be surprised when Jan 6th happens again.

Lol, yeah January 6th truly is the important event here. Truly the benchmark for the worse that could happen. What a completely self centered comment, like I'm sorry but you realize we are talking about a war and you still managed to bring up January 6th as if that was even remotely comparable or similar to what is currently happening?

WTF? Where did I say Jan 6th is the worst that could happen? I just said it is the sort of shit that happens when you let people consume propaganda. Of course that what is happening right now is way worse, as other things in the past have been.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#173

Post by PartiallyTyped »

tomp wrote: post #168
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can provide arguments in favour of the position but not definitive proof, you can decide whether all of this is just "circumstantial". - First day of war, Trump praises Putin for his behaviour, on tape, call him a genius [1, 4]. - Second day of war, Trump doubles down, on tape. [1] - When asked whether [Trump] made a mistake calling [Putin] a genius, Moskow Mitch dodges the question, responds that Putin is a "ruthl…

This comment is misleading. Trump didn’t call Putin genius, he called Putin’s tactics genius. Which (at first) it definitely did seem like.

Do you really believe that that minor error on my behalf is enough to dismiss the mountains of evidence?

- Trump calls Putin "savvy" https://youtu.be/UsTH-WqbEu8?t=80

- Trump defends praising Putin https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/trump-cpac-putin...

> The problem is not that Putin is smart, which, of course, he's smart

And sorry, it wasn't a genius, it was a stupid flop filled with greed and hubris.

Jesus Christ touch some grass.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#174

Post by arroz »

danielktdoranie wrote: post #153
arroz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let people consume junk all they want. Just don’t be surprised when Jan 6th happens again.

Yes, because the protests on January 6th were literally the worst thing to ever happen in the United States, way worse than 9/11 or the Japanese Bombing of Pearl Harbour. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden told me so. January 6th was WAY WORSE than the riots and arson that took place in multiple cities the previous summer. Those were "mostly peaceful" where as the Boomers on Jan. 6th are terrorists and should be held withou…

Please point me to the place I said Jan 6th is worse than what is happening now, or where I said it is the worst thing that could ever happen

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#175

Post by cduzz »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #137
causi wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship does not have to be public. Private companies can and do censor things all the time. They have that right. Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship.

> "Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship." I really detest this line of thought. What good are the concept of human rights when people declare that private companies by definition cannot infringe on them?

The government can take your life, property, family, and history.

I don't think it is unreasonable to hold "the government" to a different standard than "other people" or "corporations".

There is nuance to this, as there is with absolutely everything, but "monopoly on violence" is a big distinction.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#176

Post by pavon »

darkengine wrote: post #9

I'm the furthest thing from a lawyer, but "knowingly and intentionally" sounds to my lay self like it's a test of mens rea. If I were operating a Tor node in the EU, I would probably assume until stated otherwise that operating a Tor node remained legal, as long as I wasn't operating that node with the intention of circumventing the ban on RT.

Agreed. There are already tons of laws on the books that prohibit "knowingly and intentionally" contributing to a crime. If simply being aware that a service you provide could in general be used to commit a crime, and likely was being used to do so, given the large number of users, then not only would every Tor node operator be considered an accessory to drug trafficing and child pornography, but every ISP would as well, and this new law would be the least of your worries. At least in the US, that wording implies more concrete knowledge of specific actions.

That said, like you and the OP, I am not a lawyer, or even a citizen of an EU country.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#177

Post by tomp »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #173
tomp wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is misleading. Trump didn’t call Putin genius, he called Putin’s tactics genius. Which (at first) it definitely did seem like.

Do you really believe that that minor error on my behalf is enough to dismiss the mountains of evidence? - Trump calls Putin "savvy" https://youtu.be/UsTH-WqbEu8?t=80 - Trump defends praising Putin https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/trump-cpac-putin... > The problem is not that Putin is smart, which, of course, he's smart And sorry, it wasn't a genius, it was a stupid flop filled with greed and hubris. Jesus…

I really can’t disagree with this:

> "The problem is not that Putin is smart, which, of course, he's smart," Trump said. "The problem is that our leaders are dumb... and so far, allowed him to get away with this travesty and assault on humanity."

Trump is smart, which is why he recommended Europe arms itself and reduces dependence on Russian gas during his term. Other Western leaders are dumb, because they didn’t listen to him (Merkel, Biden - shut down nuclear, stop domestic oil production, invest more in Russia). Putin is smart because he exploited this weakness.

If dumb Western leaders were at least as smart as Trump, we wouldn’t be in this situation. I predict another dumbass similar situation with China, soon.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#178

Post by jarbus »

In a time of active war, people's opinions shift. I wonder if this is a temporary or permanent ban. It seems like a short-term solution to keep a lid on Russian propoganda, which seems sensible if it is to be lifted after the conflict. Seems silly not to fight in the same propoganda battle Russia is so willing to engage in, it's like not developing cyber weapons when your opponent is using them against you.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#180

Post by zo1 »

peregren wrote: post #65
Razengan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West has always demonized Russia. “Communism” equals the original sin and “communists” is basically a slur for about a century now. After America worked so hard to unleash the most destructive weapon in human history, everyone should have cowed and crowned them the undisputed hegemons of the Earth. The idea of anyone daring to set themselves up as an antipode was extremely offensive. Even after the fall of the US…

Do you think Russia are being unfairly demonised by western countries right now? Is the invasion of Ukraine, + war crimes in some way just?

Not OP. And I think so. It's outright war on all things Russian right now. Russia upset the social order of things and now they are being punished, everywhere, without impunity or due process. They will not stop until the entire Russian country is bankrupt and starving, or desperate enough to go far enough for them to escalate.

Honestly, I see this anti-Russia stuff as using the Ukraine tragedy to hide racist motivations. Way I see it, Russia is the only white nation in the world that has tried to stand up to woke bullies and is not conforming to the woke and egalitarian zeitgeist that the rest of the west is drinking. The west has just been waiting for the opportunity to launch a full on "justified" hate campaign to bully them into submission, like they do everything else these days under the guise of fairness and justice.

Sorry but it has to be said as all alternative opinions are being silenced and being removed from the world. I wanted to check this whole "RT is propaganda" claim by watching some RT and found out that it's been removed from the main distributor in South Africa. Half way across the world and some company or agency decided to jump in and ban a Russian television channel? You tell me straight that isn't retribution and/or coordinated censorship.

Post reply on HN