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I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

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Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#171

Post by mbg721 »

onethought wrote: post #167
bombcar wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they’re referring to the “rolling stop” code Tesla added - which is technically an illegal maneuver but not one resulting in death as far as I know. Autodrive is going to force the actual law and the theoretical law to come into sync, otherwise automatic driving cars will cause other issues by sticking to the letter of the law when normal drivers do not.

It is definitely not "unethical" to have an AV drive just like a human does... Unlawful, perhaps.

When programming an AV to drive like a human does, are the programmers including all the contextual human judgement that goes along with the human decisions, or just throwing away the letter of the law because it's too much trouble? I have a hard time explaining to a human teenager the etiquette that goes along with something like merging onto a highway, and it varies by region.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#173

Post by cma »

gowld wrote: post #18
callesgg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people upvoting in the new section. I think that ycombinator sometimes forces up their own links, but that tends to be more obviously related to them like hiring staff to various startups.

> be more obviously related to them like hiring staff to various startups. Those are inline ads, impossible to vote or comment on.

They should probably add the FTC ad-disclosure tag to those job posts since the companies are financially related. Or maybe they don't have to since they are related?

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#174

Post by raylad »

nbardy wrote: post #78
walrus01 wrote: post #26

From the last time that Cruise showed up on HN a while back, I recall I made a comment based on the photos of their test vehicles that they're clearly going all-in on LIDAR + RADAR + camera for feeding data into their autonomous onboard navigation computer. This is directly the opposite of what Tesla has mandated their engineers to do, which is to be 100% reliant upon camera systems only. Somebody at Cruise commented…

I used to agree with you, but I think the last 3 months in computer vision changes everything. Unstructured learning on Image+Text pairs has exploded and set STOTA on benchmark across the field. While the data coming from LIDAR may be better. There is no where near the amount of LIDAR data in the world. Images and cameras have the advantage here where internet is full of weakly labeled data that turns out to be the k…

To what degree can current ML models and techniques for self-driving understand what's happening based on data captured at multiple time points, maintaining object permanence?

For example, if a a car is stopped at a red light and it sees a child across the street running and the child runs behind a truck it will take her 5 seconds to get past at her last observed rate of speed, and the light turns green at a moment when the car would hit the child as she emerges from behind the truck (given the preceding) as it drives by the truck, do any ML systems have the ability to predict this?

People would likely be cautious if they saw the same scene, and would approach slowly. I don't think that current ML systems are able to do that, but would like to hear some informed opinions.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#175

Post by epgui »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #162
epgui wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely think the type of decision we're talking about can be modelled. I'm not suggesting it's trivial, and I'm not saying there's a nice and tidy closed analytical solution, which is what you appear to be focused on with your parabola/physics-based example, but I absolutely think statistical methods (or "AI/ML" if you prefer) can be applied to the problem. It's pretty much how your brain solves these sorts of…

> I absolutely think the type of decision we're talking about can be modelled. The possibility is not in dispute. Billions of biological organisms do these things everyday. But this is: > It's pretty much how your brain solves these sorts of problems too, there's no magic to intuition or human decision-making. Is it how the brain works? My ball example isn't about it having a closed solution. If you throw a ball I ca…

Yes, to some degree, we know that brains work that way. It’s not a big mystery.

(What is a mystery is the exact way things are wired up, but not the building blocks, and not the general organizational principles.)

Source: I did neuroanatomy in med school (but am not a doctor).

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#176

Post by repsilat »

chrononaut wrote: post #120
paganel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often drive with sub in my eyes at dawn/dusk and trust that the road is clear Not sure how to say it, but try to never do that going forward, please, for your sake and for the sake of the others who share the same road with you. Yes, driving "blind" for one second, maybe two seconds (even though it's uncomfortable for me at this point) from time to time is not the end of the world, particularly if you're driving…

> I often drive with sub in my eyes at dawn/dusk and trust that the road is clear For others left wondering what this meant, I think GP meant "I often drive with [the sun] in my eyes at dawn/dusk .."

And why beholdest thou the floater that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the submarine that is in thine own eye?

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#177

Post by TulliusCicero »

ec109685 wrote: post #152
joenathanone wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I personally think is a mistake. I'm in the FSD beta and previously Tesla bounced the radar off the ground and was able to see a few car lengths ahead, vision only, not so much. The effect is when stuck in heavy traffic on surface streets FSD beta will think it should try to go around a lead car that is stopped, not knowing there is a long line of traffic ahead of the lead car. I don't see how they can overcome…

How is camera placement worse than what we can see as a driver?

It's probably not, but humans have a mental model of the world that cars don't, even ones with relatively advanced computers.

Using more and better sensors is an attempt to compensate for the shallow mental model, so you'd have cars still being 'dumber' than human drivers, but if they're all-knowing, that doesn't matter quite as much.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#178

Post by earleybird »

pxx wrote: post #146
nbardy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with you, but I think the last 3 months in computer vision changes everything. Unstructured learning on Image+Text pairs has exploded and set STOTA on benchmark across the field. While the data coming from LIDAR may be better. There is no where near the amount of LIDAR data in the world. Images and cameras have the advantage here where internet is full of weakly labeled data that turns out to be the k…

Am I missing something? What specifically is a paradigm shift in the last three months?

Elsewhere in this subthread was mentions CLIP[0]

About 2/3rds down the page features 'Object tracking' and 'Robotic control'

[0] https://blog.roboflow.com/openai-clip/

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#179

Post by AlotOfReading »

onethought wrote: post #166
AlotOfReading wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you consider open about Tesla's approach. The fact that you can run updates without a license or any clue about what's changed or how it will perform in your area is exactly the issue! Tesla goes out of their way to avoid publishing actual metrics for safety, even useless ones like the annual DMV reports. Waymo, cruise etc aren't much better in public, but maybe it's a small comfort to know there ar…

Sorry you are misrepresenting things a lot. Tesla publish autopilot data every year. Crashes per mile with AP, without AP, and with Safety assistance features, and show consistent improvement of AP. What do the competitors publish? You are comparing AP (a traffic aware lane keeping cruise control system) to Waymo (a driverless taxi)? How about FSD Beta vs Waymo how has your experience been there? By "in public" I mea…

I would consider a reasonable definition of 'open' to include publication of all relevant safety metrics through the appropriate channels. As the other reply mentions, one channel would be the DMV report in CA which Tesla famously eschews. They also don't publish FSD data, and their AP numbers are essentially useless for determining actual safety. They also don't have professional testers like cruise, waymo, etc do validating releases. Those other companies can do better here with publication, but they track safety data very closely internally, even down to specific scenarios and streets/areas. I haven't seen evidence that those sorts of numbers exist at Tesla or are consulted before releasing updates to the public, but feel free to correct me.

If your metric is simply public access and videos, waymo and cruise both have public demos available. jjricks has quite a few videos on the former. The latter is too new and small a program to have much content yet.

Re: I have formally accepted the CEO job at Cruise once again

#180

Post by AlotOfReading »

silentsea90 wrote: post #68

Huge fan of Kyle and the Cruise team. I remember covering Cruise in a class assignment back in 2014, and was very skeptical of the idea of selling self driving kits to existing car owners. Ever since, they've gotten acquired (or something) and are holding up their own against behemoths in the space. Cruise's reviews on Blind are pretty bad, something that keeps me away from joining them as an employee, but I suppose…

As someone who recently left, many of the complaints on blind aren't anywhere close to my personal experiences. I enjoyed the technical side (which is a bit chaotic), but the admin side is borderline antagonistic to the rest of the company. Moreover, the company is on the losing side of a power struggle with GM. The former CEO was a victim of that, seemingly as was the equity and compensation plan.
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