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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

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Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#171

Post by laurex »

sveno wrote: post #164
0x4d464d48 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...there are far too many corporate shills, the good ones know they have to be careful." Huh. Today I learned I'm not one of the good ones.

You only have 258 karma. You don't have to worry yet. When you get into the mid-thousands, that's when things get dicey. Tech is like card counting. If you actually figure the game out, you get punished and flushed out. If you keep gambling and losing and don't know why (because you're bad at what you're trying to do) there will be a seat at the table until everything is squeezed out of you.

Though I am reasonably active on HN, I actually have no idea what you mean. Could you go into more detail about 'the game' and what one should worry about?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#172

Post by dredmorbius »

ciphol wrote: post #68
robertakarobin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in general "free speech" platforms seem to quickly turn into Alt-Right platforms that are, ironically, heavily moderated. (Looking at you, Voat)

Because the only people who feel the personal need for a "free speech" platform are the ones whose views are considered odious elsewhere. If people with non-"odious" views end up at such a platform, they will quickly notice the unusual concentration of "odious" views, and generally find it uncomfortable and leave. Thus there is a steady increase in the prevalence of "odious" views until they are near-universal on the…

Not strictly true.

Those whose focus is overtly offensive and oppressive speech, however ...

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#173

Post by dredmorbius »

fallingknife wrote: post #93
optimalsolver wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this before, but it's particularly notable how free speech Reddit alternatives very quickly end up taking a far-right tone. What's really funny is how all discussions they host have to be approached from that angle. So you can't just talk about your favorite TV show. You have to first make a nod to how it features a Jewish conspiracy to push black-white interracial relationships. Only then can you go on to…

This is because Reddit was the original free speech platform, and you could find anything from any or no political leaning. Then they dropped free speech and kicked off right leaning content. So of course the alternatives quickly go right. If they had kicked off left wing content all of the free speech sites would be left, and you couldn't talk about your favorite TV show without going into the relative representatio…

Usenet, mailing lists, numerous BBSes, and any number of earlier Web forums look on your assertion with bemusement.

Reddit claimed free speech as a value in its early years. That sentiment has evolved, for all the usual reasons.[1]

It is possible to host a wide range of significant views without becoming overtly hostile to the majority of the population, and the viewpoints held by those.

Reddit was in no way "the original free speech platform".

________________________________

Notes:

1. TL;DR: it's untenable and spirals into a cesspit, QED.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#174

Post by greenyoda »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #116
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are easy to avoid howerver. Not participating in them and upvoting other contents solve the issue at least for yourself.

Yup. This is the answer. If something political is posted its one of many items on the front page. Ignore it and upvote content you find interesting. Even better browse new posts instead of only the front or first few pages.

> Even better browse new posts instead of only the front or first few pages.

Yes! No story makes it to the front page unless enough people upvote it on the "new" page. Thus, upvoting a new a story gives you much more editorial influence over the contents of the front page than upvoting a story that has already made it there. (And it takes fewer people to flag away an off-topic story while it's still new.)

Another perspective: By browsing the front page, you're looking at stories that other HN readers find interesting. By reading the "new" page, you have the ability to promote stories that you think are interesting.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#175

Post by jl2718 »

cogman10 wrote: post #98
zionic wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just a flaw in your brain’s logical processing. I’ve seen this again and again, people will see an ocean of normal content anywhere free speech is allowed and laser-focus on the single floating turd. They’ll then mischaracterize the entire ocean as the turd, it’s like they have no sense of proportionality.

Name a free speech platform where I'm not going to find the turd on the front page at this very moment. I'm happy to be shown to be wrong, but from my experience what you are saying doesn't exist.

I think of the sea of knowledge as a bunch of floating turds at first sight, which are intentionally provocative and noxious but easy to spot, mostly water below, which is the context of common knowledge and beliefs, which may be the unstated assumption of the material, and then nuggets of gold below, which are hard to find because they are repressed for some reason, legal, social, safety, or otherwise, and therefore potentially valuable to a certain set of objectives. But both turds and gold nuggets face the same types of moderation pressure by their disruptive nature.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#176

Post by awb »

sveno wrote: post #164
0x4d464d48 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...there are far too many corporate shills, the good ones know they have to be careful." Huh. Today I learned I'm not one of the good ones.

You only have 258 karma. You don't have to worry yet. When you get into the mid-thousands, that's when things get dicey. Tech is like card counting. If you actually figure the game out, you get punished and flushed out. If you keep gambling and losing and don't know why (because you're bad at what you're trying to do) there will be a seat at the table until everything is squeezed out of you.

I have ~12k karma and never experienced anything getting dicey. I’ve never been affiliated with YC or the mods.

In my experience it’s a pretty fair community and I’ve been downvoted many times.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#177

Post by dredmorbius »

dekhn wrote: post #75
tptacek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop making insubstantial one-line comments, please.

My "insubstantial" one-line comments are often more valuable to readers of HN than pagelong of pseudointellectual debate (I watch my upvotes carefully. Which reminds me: is there a tool to track votes and comments on my comments?)

Collabortive-filtering tends to have a strong brevity bias.

That's only one problem with collective moderation. Moderators are a trust and quality backstop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30376111

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#178

Post by jason-phillips »

sveno wrote: post #164
0x4d464d48 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...there are far too many corporate shills, the good ones know they have to be careful." Huh. Today I learned I'm not one of the good ones.

You only have 258 karma. You don't have to worry yet. When you get into the mid-thousands, that's when things get dicey. Tech is like card counting. If you actually figure the game out, you get punished and flushed out. If you keep gambling and losing and don't know why (because you're bad at what you're trying to do) there will be a seat at the table until everything is squeezed out of you.

> Tech is like card counting. If you actually figure the game out, you get punished and flushed out.

Wouldn't this dynamic that you describe from your perspective exist in every industry?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#179

Post by greenyoda »

tlb wrote: post #101
ksec wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I "think", most of those debate ties with technology one way or another. Say Joe Rogan's issue may not have been allowed on HN if it wasn't for Spotify. And more broadly speaking, what are the roles of technology in an extremely political sensitive climate. Should Telegram do A or B, and what about Whatsapp, Facebook moderation, Apple App Store disallow certain group, is that a curation problem or a political problem…

We should be stricter with requiring a genuine technical connection. “Has a podcast on Spotify” or “fundraised through GoFundMe” don’t count. Journalists throw in recognizable names whenever possible because they get clicks, even though the topic is completely non-technical.

Or even (non-political) articles like "some web site got hacked" or "a Tesla crashed somewhere" or "web site X is down". Unless there's real technical detail in such a story (which there hardly ever is when the story first comes out), it doesn't encourage meaningful discussion, only baseless speculation about what might have happened.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

#180

Post by manholio »

Regarding the throwaway accounts, I wish there was some way to delete old comments. I think I have the moral right to control their lifetime, and occasional gaps in 5 year old discussions will not really matter to anyone.

Without such an option the logical alternative is to periodically cycle your username, amassing somewhat of a sockpuppet army if you are so inclined.

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