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Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

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Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#171
post #142
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you running dedicated master nodes? We switched from every node does everything few years ago and it’s been incredibly stable

I'm surprised they'd even let you run a cluster without dedicated master nodes. It's basic good practice and their docs emphasize this quite clearly.

I don’t remember if 12 years ago it was so obvious…. But yes it is very clear these days

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of releasing a chunk of code that relies on internal AWS infra?

Well isn’t it convenient that it requires AWS infra. And there is absolutely no way they could have designed it differently.

AWS had proprietary infrastructure that could solve the problem at hand; it's not reasonable to expect them to invest an incredible amount of effort to solve it again. AWS customers do not net-benefit from that duplicative effort.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they want to stop you from doing those things, and hiring out to do that, I think they want it to not be offered as a prepackaged product. So it's a reduction in freedom, but it's not a reduction in user freedom.

Those are just differences in timing and system efficiency. In one view, RHEL is a pre-packaged product. In another view, it’s a bunch of users outsourcing a portion of FOSS management to an expert company because they don’t want to do it.

I don't think I understand your argument. Even if it is just timing and efficiency (I'd argue it's a few other things too), wouldn't that mean it's not just a matter of perspective?

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are just differences in timing and system efficiency. In one view, RHEL is a pre-packaged product. In another view, it’s a bunch of users outsourcing a portion of FOSS management to an expert company because they don’t want to do it.

I don't think I understand your argument. Even if it is just timing and efficiency (I'd argue it's a few other things too), wouldn't that mean it's not just a matter of perspective?

Fair. I retract “just” as I agree it’s a few other things, but in one world, I can contract out my Linux packaging to Redhat or my Elasticsearch hosting to Amazon and in another world I can’t. I think that’s a significant difference in freedom to me, as the user/potential user.

“You have the freedom to contract for help with our software with this company but not that company” or “you have the freedom to contract for hosting in inefficient arrangements that we can beat in competition but not in efficient ways that we’d rather not compete against”.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: ex-AWS as well, worked very closely with MemoryDB, but not paid to shill! You're entitled to your opinion but your line of reasoning for how MemoryDB for Redis came to exist or the reasoning about why it isn't in upstream Redis is not factual. MemoryDB's architecture uses Amazon's home grown log replication services as pointed out by Werner Vogel in his blog post about MemoryDB[0]. This architecture is fu…

“meeting customers where they were” I’m a total AWS fanboy, but even I cringe when I read that superficial, customer-centric sound bite. You know who meets people where they are? FOSS maintainers. “Also as far as I know one of the lead committers to Redis is from AWS” Conveniently cryptic, what does from AWS mean? Do they still work there? Did they specialize in log replication?

Aren't FOSS maintainers famously "my way or the highway"?

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#176
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think there's a moral issue expecting free contributions to something which only you are allowed to monetize? And how can you satisfy users to the greatest extent while also preventing them from using the provider that is best able to meet their needs? EDIT: regarding your inline response, > Nowhere in OSS licenses does it include the expectations of free contributions The expectation is not encoded in the…

I want to afford anyone the benefit of an F/OSS license so they don’t have to waste their life energy recreating a wheel that I’ve already created. If it helps you and saves you time, have at it! In other cases, I contribute back patches so that companies can ship better software to their users (sometimes so I benefit; other times just so someone else doesn’t have to fix the same bug I just fixed). This license case…

Right, I mean to say why would potential contributors want to afford those benefits to the original author so that only the original author can monetize it?

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#177
post #12

Full disclosure: This is my tool that I'm using to generate the insights. When OpenSearch was announced, I shared some insights into how both Elasticsearch and OpenSearch were evolving, and I'll share some more up to date insights here. Looking at recent pull request activity, OpenSearch had 52 contributors https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D... while Elasticsearch had 181 https://oss.gitsens…

Thanks for gathering some data here. Very insightful and it confirms some suspicions I've had. I'm one of the people that is no longer creating pull requests for Elastic. I was never a big contributor and I only did a handful of small PRs. But all little bits matter and I was OK with doing that under the Apache 2.0 license and putting my time in and doing my small part. That's not a thing for me anymore. I charge mon…

I was curious to see what the monthly contribution pattern was for both Elasticsearch and OpenSearch and this is was what I got:

       repo    |  month  | commits | authors 
   ------------+---------+---------+---------
    elastic    | 2022-02 |     195 |      66
    elastic    | 2022-01 |     269 |      68
    elastic    | 2021-12 |     194 |      64
    elastic    | 2021-11 |     233 |      59
    elastic    | 2021-10 |     435 |      74
    elastic    | 2021-09 |     318 |      64
    elastic    | 2021-08 |      49 |      30
    opensearch | 2022-02 |      18 |      11
    opensearch | 2022-01 |      34 |      17
    opensearch | 2021-12 |      32 |      10
    opensearch | 2021-11 |      19 |      13
    opensearch | 2021-10 |      28 |      12
    opensearch | 2021-09 |      20 |      10
    opensearch | 2021-08 |       3 |       3
It seems like the contribution for Elasticsearch hasn't drastically changed that much (if any really), but what is interesting is contributions for OpenSearch has been increasing.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#178
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor should it, that's what OSS is about. Why should they not do what they want with your software? As long as it stays open it's OSS

Ok, but I am asking is there any solution? Is there a way to get the benefits of OSS AND for the creators to get more then zero dollars when someone makes a shitload of money off of just putting their software on an enterprise cloud?

Licensing software accomplishes that, but you lose the freedoms OSS provides.

You also have to take into account that companies use OSS to gain adoption and pull off once they're established. This is why GPL and AGPL are essential. It ensure everyone has to contribute back.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#179
post #105
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can see the number of commits drastically drop off where OpenSearch forked Elasticsearch: https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch/graphs/contributors https://github.com/opensearch-project/OpenSearch/graphs/cont... Over an order of magnitude more development on Elasticsearch than OpenSearch since that fork

Here's the activity difference for the last year repo | commits | authors ------------+---------+--------- elastic | 2719 | 179 opensearch | 265 | 54 Here's a breakdown based on commits with at least 15 lines of code churn (lines added, changed or deleted). repo | commits | authors ------------+---------+--------- elastic | 1681 | 122 opensearch | 153 | 41 What is interesting about these numbers, is they clearly show…

I think part of the challenge looking at these metrics is the project versus repo structure. For instance, contributions to security are included in the elasticsearch repo but not in the core OpenSearch repo e.g. https://github.com/opensearch-project/security/graphs/contri...

But I still think having a bunch of folks contribute isn't trivial and worth highlighting (57 is a ton for many projects) and anytime I see a truly OSS project at this scale I think it's a good thing.

Re: Elastic and Amazon reach agreement on trademark infringement lawsuit

#180
post #12

Full disclosure: This is my tool that I'm using to generate the insights. When OpenSearch was announced, I shared some insights into how both Elasticsearch and OpenSearch were evolving, and I'll share some more up to date insights here. Looking at recent pull request activity, OpenSearch had 52 contributors https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D... while Elasticsearch had 181 https://oss.gitsens…

I believe Amazon does most of their current feature development in separate repositories for their plugins whereas Elastic has their plugins (x-pack) merged into their core repository. Would be interesting to see that taken into account too (along with the actual lines committed, i.e. 10 commits vs 10 commits but one has 10x the code).
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